My name is John golden from sails pop online says magazine, I’m pipeliner CRM and today I’m joined by Patrick wen Hua’s, a who is the author of the upcoming book, the persuasion code and your marketing can help you persuade anyone anywhere anytime. So welcome Patrick hey good afternoon John, so Patrick, you have been talking about neural marketing and you have you know you ordered another book before and you’ve been in this in this area.
You know for a long long time, so tell me a little bit about what is what is different about your book. That’s coming out in September, the the persuasion code. So what happened is about 17 years ago there was a new branch of marketing that was born called neural marketing, and here is the promise of newer marketing. The promise is that traditional marketing does not really work. Why? Because in traditional marketing, here is what we do.
We ask people: what do you want and then based on their answers? We won’t build a product and later we will create a strategy to sell that part, but the reality is that people don’t really know what they want. As a result, traditional marketing is very often detailing, and the promise of newer marketing was very different. The promise of newer marketing is that we would ask people what do you want, but we will not trust their self-reported answers.
Instead, we could measure directly on their bodies, values, physiological changes that indicate what people truly want so 17 years ago, the world was on fire when people started to use this, because the promise was just too good to be true, and so, if you fast forward 17 Years later, neural marketing has exploded in order today there are over a hundred companies in the world that offered various kinds of services around the home marketing, but it has not really delivered on its initial promise and it has not initially delivered why? Because there is not a single unifying model that explains what you find when you do these physiological measurements.
No word anybody can do various kinds of physiological measurements and by the way, those techniques go from very simple, very inexpensive ones. Where you can measure, for example, the eg on the head of people or you can in measure their emotion based on how to contract the 43 muscles on their faces, or you can measure how their skin changes react resistance. So all these measurements are very easy to do, but what’s really hard is how do you interpret them in a complete? You know sales and marketing approach.
In other words, how should an advertiser change its sales and marketing strategies based on those measurements? So, unfortunately, the initial promise of no marketing has not really delivered. So when we wrote our first book, we suggested that there might be a model that helps you guide everything you do not read them to make it really effective, but we had not tied all that model to all these measurements.
So, what’s continued in our new book is that we are now explaining how it really works, in other words, it’s a little bit like if you are talking about physics. As you know, in physics we are trying to unify the two basic physics model: the traditional physics, bye, doc, bye I’ll help me with his name. It was a British guys, future new Neutron, you use it and the quantum physics. So there is not a single unifying model yet, but we’re getting closer and closer well, there is no single unifying model of sales of marketing and our model, we believe, is their very first one.
That just does that. You know it’s a complete model that explains how people use their brain to make buying decisions and based on that, it helps any entrepreneur. Anybody who has to convince other people about what they need to do if they want to be more successful in sales and marketing. Right so so explain to the people, their listeners, who may not have come across this before or not really pay too much attention.
But why is it that you can’t trust what people initially say they want, or why is it that that neuroscience plays such a big role in really understanding what you know how people make decisions as opposed to what they say sure well think about it. If I ask you, imagine you walk in the restaurant and instead of offering you a menu, I ask you: what do you want to eat tonight? You see how embarrassing how difficult it is to figure out what you really want mm-hmm, whereas if you see that many of you, oh yeah, the chicken looks really good on the menu today.
So when people have to self-report what they really want or what they really like, they are going through the funnel of expressing with words what they want, and that does not allow them to really access the unconscious. As you know, in the mind, if you think about it, there is really a conscious part, which is only five to ten percent of who we are. And then there is this big iceberg underneath it, which is 90 percent of we are, and we really have access to that unconscious and asking people to access that unconscious.
By using words, you know, self-reported words is mission impossible. So the reality is people who really know what they want. However, our body does so, for example, when you get scared, you know you get the first signs of fear even before you’re aware that you’re scared, and today there are a number of tools that we can use to make those measurements. So, in essence, those measurements are allowing us to poke into the unconscious of people, and the techniques are very reliable in the past they used to be very complicated.
In other words, you needed a supercomputer, you needed 10 PhDs to run it and a big budget. Today, all these techniques admitted you know very affordable. In fact, some of these techniques are even accessible for free on the web. So how would you if you take this over the sales for a moment right, so you know sales people have to ask a lot of questions and do discovery and really try and uncover what somebody what a prospect is looking for.
So how does it play into that because, like you said I mean, maybe this is a difficult process for the actual customer. Yes, so in the case of myself, it way now is, if you take that idea and put it in the context of a one-on-one meeting between the buyer and a seller, I mean that what the very first task are the seller is really to understand what are Some of the negative thoughts that are going into the mind of the buyer, I mean in our book.
We call that the pain mm-hmm, but the unconscious pain we believe, are more important than the conscious pains and I’m going to give you an example right now. Imagine the seller is selling home, delivered pizza and the buyer is the average consumer of pizza mm-hmm, most people when you ask them. So what do you work when it comes to a pizza? You know people can talk about, they will tell you. I want extra pepperoni and I want cheese etc, but in reality there is a small company in the u.
S. That figured this out. But four years ago they figured out that not one pain of people buy home. Deliver pizza. I know almost like the unconscious pain. Is the anxiety of not knowing when the pizza will arrive right and again, it would be almost. It would be impossible for most people toward that, but we can measure it on a bun and figuring this out that no pizza shop came up with a slogan and never struggle.
It was 30 minutes or less for extreme mm-hm, and that little place is now known. As Domino’s Pizza – and they became number one now W speaking number one, not because they make the best pizza but because they were able to diagnose that pain and then they build a complete organization whose unique purpose is to eliminate that. So this is the case of Domino’s, going back to our case of a single one on one person selling the job of the sales guy is to read between the line of the answers that the person will that the person will given, but so, if I am That person trying to sell you, Domino’s Pizza, I’m going to ask you questions about, so you know you’re going to be home alone tonight.
What are some of the thoughts that go through your brain etc? And I’m going to try to force you to admit that you have this unconscious pain, but, as you can imagine, it’s a very difficult job. In other words, it’s a job which is more the job of a psychologist than it is the job of a salesperson, and that’s why salespeople typically, are not very good at doing this, because we train ourselves people to be good talkers.
Unfortunately, most of them are not good listeners and to throw a good diagnostic of that pain to find between the line where the consumer really wants. It takes somebody who has the capacity to listen very deeply, and it takes the capacity of people can ask the right questions and and a prospect or a customer. It’s one of the value drivers will reward you for uncovering something. You know a problem or a pain that they either didn’t know they had or did not weren’t aware that it was that acute right.
So that’s really where you logged in yeah, when you do that diagnostic of the pain properly there are two major benefit. The first benefit is it’s a soft way of selling. You know where you don’t have to say: well, we have the best product, I’m the best sales guy, no you’re, demonstrating your expertise, not by what you say, but by what you ask for by the quality of the questioning that you drive. So that’s the first thing.
The second thing is asking question: is the best way to develop rapport right, if you think about it, the people that are interesting, a lot of people that talk about himself. There are the people that talk to you about you. So, what’s the best way for me to talk to you about you, if you ask you question and so and so getting back, pivoting back a little to the neuro marketing piece. So when you look at at most companies marketing today say software products or whatever.
What do you see is the big problem with the kind of traditional marketing and how could people flip that using newer marketing? Well, the problem is that marketing well done typically is very expensive. I mean you need to do big surveys. You need to question a lot of people, so I think a lot of people think of marketing as an expensive task, but when I think about it, for us, Noora marketing is really what can help people differentiate between the what people think they want and what people Really want inside the unconscious and for a large company.
This is invaluable. You know I’ll give you just one example: we’re working for Avon, for example, and you know trying some of our techniques they’ve been able to see sales increase by up to 40 % for some of the shampoo products, because a lot of the ads that they were Doing were too focused on the product itself, etc, but it was not really addressing some of the core pains or negative emotion that resides in the brain of our consumers right.
So that is really the promise of no marketing it’s to help. People do focus everything. They talked about which typically centered on the mimimi, I mean most people, if you think about it most people when they talk about the products and services they talk about who they are and what they do, mm-hmm. In fact, if you look at all websites, most websites include a tab which is called who we are and another tab, which is called what we do, but the critical information that is missing there is: why should the customer buy right, and what we have seen is That noir marketing is the fastest surest way to get companies to quickly focus and now down on why the customer should buy.
So what are some other examples that you’ve seen of where somebody has done this? Well, where they’ve changed their marketing approach and and really hit the you know, hit the target. You know there are no many examples, but if you’re talking about Apple, for example, right the computer and phone company Steve Jobs by the way used to say we don’t do marketing at Apple, because the consumer doesn’t know – and I know better than them what they want.
So we’re going to build it if you’re, not in fact not completely wrong, we’re going to sell a lot of it, but Apple has been the champion of this now think about it. I’d like to take you back about 30 years ago. Why would people want to buy an Apple computer thirty years ago? There was only one reason think about 30 years ago. Yes, the reason is slightly different today. That’s why I’m bringing you back a few years back? Why would people buy a Macintosh when the main computer? Well, the main competitor at the time was the regular PC at the time they it was very specialized.
I mean there were people, maybe actually yes, designers and people like that who bought Max’s right and a few students. You know what was the main reason. Why? Because it was easier to use, you know what, if you were buying your PC, he didn’t have a degree in computer science. It would be very hard for you to use it right, so Macintosh make it easier for people so Apple use. That claim, in other words, the reason why you would want to buy your Apple computer years and years ago, was easier to use and slowly over time as computers became easier to use Apple to endorse another crime, and why would people buy an iPhone today? There’s still only one reason, but it’s slightly different.
It’s no one here to use because every four years is to use – and you know what it is: it’s cool to use cool yeah. So this again so Apple decided once and for all in the 35 year history. They went from a t1 claim, is it to use and they slowly switch to cool to use over a period of time, but they did that because they know that had been one crime. You know being able to write the book. Why buy enough? On the only one chapter mm-hm and hammering that chapter you know cause when Apple’s 20 years ago was selling a mirror.
It was always you know easy to use by creating that repetition by making it clear as to what is that one chapter in the book title? Why buy an Apple Apple has been extremely extremely successful, so Apple was using some of the concept that we are now explaining from a purely scientific standpoint for for many many years right so, but so basically BAM based on that, then, are you saying that most companies Should really look at uncovering that that one or two reasons, real reasons why a customers should buy from them absolute and it an it, and as you say, it’s not the obvious one in terms of it may not be they the product itself.
It may be something you know totally tangental even to it right absolutely I mean, if you think about it, easy to use and a Macintosh computer. It has nothing to do fast. Delivery has nothing to do with the pizza itself. In other words, unfortunately, if you’re selling your commodity, you will not be able to find what makes you unique in the product itself, because, by definition it’s a commodity, so you’ve got to find that one reason why people want to buy it and it’s going to be Outside of the product, functions and features itself, and all the companies that are successful have destroyed it for a long long time.
That’s excellent advice so before we finish up today, give me a little bit more information about when your book is available about your company about yourself and how people can learn more about you right. So our first book is the valuable you know it was written about. Fifteen years ago, so it’s still available. Our new book titled, the persuasion code, will be available in mid September, is published by ye, and the information is already available on amazon.
Com and what we are is we are the only advertising agency in the world that uses no marketing techniques to diagnose the pain of The customer and ours fine, the true motivation that drives people to buy. Then we are a strategic, consulting firm. We guide the choice of companies on what is that one chapter in your book and we train people on all these concepts and the last thing we do is we have a small, creative arm.
Then, once we have agreed on all this concept, they actually rhyme. So the concepts are, what are the pains in the brain of your customers, and how do you diagnose that then? The second concept is: how do you differentiate your claims numbers? How do you make your solution appear completely unique in the eyes of your customers, even if you’re selling commodity, we call that the claims? The third concept is, how do you demonstrate the game? No, it’s not enough to say I have the best product.
How do you actually prove it and how the volume so pain claim and gain, and the last step is: how do you deliver to the primal brain? In other words, how do you deliver your message to the unconscious of the consumer? Okay, so we packages we package, our services, so that small companies and not company alike, can see benefit in applying a model that is again completely anchored in the science of the human right.
Yeah, it’s fascinating stuff and I’ve had the pleasure of seeing Patrick speak before so I would highly recommend that you, you check out the sales brain and check out Patrick and check out his book and I think you’ll find it extremely fascinating. So listen thanks again, Patrick for joining us. Today. We look forward to to your book and to seen the model in you know its glory coming out in September and then learning more about this fascinating subject.
So thank you for joining us today. My name is John Gould and sales pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM will see all for another expert inside interview really soon. Thank you, John. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our You, Tube blog and then comment get involved in the conversation, love to hear what you have to say.
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