My name is John golden from says pop online says magazine and pipeliner CRM and today I’m delighted to be joined by herb Cohen, who is in Brooklyn Heights in New York. Hey turn herb you’re, just fine and herb has for more than three decades or maybe even more he’s been a practicing negotiator intimately immersed in in some of the world’s leading, like headline dramas from hostage hostile takeovers, hostile hostage negotiations, your clients have been executives, entrepreneurs, sports Theater, the glut corporations, government agencies and you’ve written a number of books on the subject of negotiation, so so herb, I, you are a definitive resource on negotiations and I’m sure you’ve forgotten more about negotiations than most people will ever know in their lifetime.
Right. Yes, although so what are some of the when people come to negotiate in the first place, I don’t think negotiations are something that comes naturally to most people. I mean a lot of us think, maybe that we’re good negotiators, but we don’t really know what we’re doing. What are some of the mistakes that people make when they approach negotiations in the first place? Well, initially, they believe that it is something that’s very narrow, they see it, they use the metaphor of the pie and they think well, here’s a pie with 12 slices, and if I get six, they get six I’m going to try to get eight and hold them Off so they see it as a competitive game and that’s really not what it is.
Actually, you know, if you take the pie metaphor I may like the crust, then you may like the apple and he’s like inside, and so you can generally work things out or both sides gain in both sides benefit yeah. So so I mean I could just saying they’re so but – and I think that’s true and I think that’s unfortunately true business and life – that people tend to look at things as finite as opposed to you know, there’s enough there for everyone, but also tell me people Do people generally very few people love the negotiations? Phase right negotiating is something that’s learned.
I didn’t start out as a negotiator, you learn it it’s a skill that you will acquire and the way you acquire it is by practicing it probably. The first things that people should remember is that virtually everything is negotiable. Thing is the product of a negotiation. That’s how it came about a price thing about like Tiffany’s, would you say gee it’s going to go stated Tiffany’s? Oh my god. You know it’s like untouchable.
It’s holy ground. Yet how did they establish the price that judging $ 8,000 for the ring – and these salespeople said hey, let’s make it seven we’ll sell more rings. The accounting financial people said no make it nine profit and they worked it out and ultimately, they came up with 8000, which prices 7990 sounds better. Yeah point is: if something came about as a result of negotiation. Of course it’s negotiable and if you start to think virtually everything came about as a result of the negotiation, the only thing that didn’t are religious and ethical moral principles right other than that everything’s negotiable.
Like I wrote a book, you could negotiate anything which has been translated into 36 languages, yeah and I’ll, be the world’s world’s biggest selling book on negotiating them selling selling is a negotiation anytime. You were attempting to influence someone’s behavior you’re negotiating we negotiate. Is we negotiate with banks? We negotiate what our boss, we negotiate with subordinates mm-hmm. Why is this series of negotiations and if you learn how to play this game, you end up being much more satisfied and living an enriched life, so you say in your book: you can negotiate anything there’s three crucial steps to success.
What are those steps? Well, I said: there’s three things: there’s information and the more you get the better off you are. The next is time and the third is power and people always have more power than they think they have. We always underestimate. Ourself, for example, it’s a prisoner in solitary confinement. You know they take away your shoelaces and your belt, so the guys walking around he’s holding up his pants.
You know he’s got those shoes and he craves a cigarette. He goes to the going knocks on the steel door. The guy opens up. What do you want be nice? Why I, like his cigarette BAM, the god slam he comes back, he does it again. The God opens up. I just told you no, he said, look if I don’t get a cigarette from you within the next minute. I tend to bang my head up against that concrete wall till I’m bloody and unconscious and when they revived me I’ll swear that you did it one cigarette.
I won’t bother you now. Can the guy get that cigarette sure get a cup of coffee as well? The point is even in a powerless situation, you’ve got more power than you think, yeah yeah. So that’s great. I’m writing that down. Just in case, I ever find myself and solitary confinement that I know exactly how to get a cigarette going forward. But I like the point, though her because I do think – and this is something I think a lot of salespeople experience like they love the sales process and all of that and they theory, but but as it gets down to the end and it gets into the Negotiation process, as you say, they start to feel like they, like.
The buyer, has all the power and they have no power left right and that’s when they start. You know offering up discounts before anybody even asked for them. So how do you? How do you help people in that situation? Take a step back and say no, no, this is you know, there’s there’s power on both sides of the table. Well. Well, first of all, let me just digress for a moment say: selling is really today a honorable skilled, profession, yeah, because you’re in selling other than other jobs in corporations where I was in selling one you get ownership for the results.
You did it. Okay number two! You get instant feedback right and in other jobs and corporations staff jobs. How do you know you’re doing well of my performance appraisal in six months and the boss calls you and tells you, and he says things, do you like remember five months ago, you thought you doing well. Well, you were, and the third thing is one ownership results, feedback and an opportunity to take risk, and so, if you’re in sales, you really can be very independent.
I was in corporations and selling positions and I could arrive late. I would pop my 10 year old car and the CEOs place because they didn’t want to walk, and I got away with all that stuff. Why? Because I was like yeah selling is fantastic and selling involves negotiation other than that you in order to take you work for Apple, and you have 8,000 new new, ipods, ipads, 8,000 new ones, and it’s the new number 16 model.
Yeah and you’ve got 30,000 people at wonnum you’re, not selling you’re, taking orders you’re filling out slips selling involves skill. It involves determining what the needs of the customer are and satisfying those needs, and a lot of that is done by your style. How you approach people and the best way to approach a custom if you’re in selling is in a congenial cooperative fashion, with what I call a low-key pose of calculated incompetence so run run that by me again that sentence say you want to approach people in an Amicable fashion, with a Loki Loki pose of calculated and comprises other words, listen to the other side find out what they want.
Ask questions rather than give answers even take notes, because people love when someone’s writing things down will say to me. But if you’re dealing a little moron you’re saying, I should write down what he says more important to write down what a moron first, because you’re the first guy who never wrote down if you’re a real professional salesperson, you’re finding out what your customers needs are and You’re shaping your product, your service, whatever you have to meet those particular needs, he’s satisfied and you’re satisfied.
In fact, you never approach people in the condescending way. The opposite is true: negotiation selling, dumb is bed and smart inarticulate is better than articulate. You want to train yourself to say I don’t know I don’t understand. Could ya? Could you help me I’m kind of new at this and let the other side help you let the other side, your customer virtually meant to you. Through this deal, you will become a much more successful person now, in fact, I have what I call the magic words of selling.
These are three-letter words. First word is spell hu H and that’s pronounced. Deca word is WH 80 WH a note T on and it knows wha. It really helps me see. One of my strategies, the negotiation and selling, is to make the other side feel superior to me right if any cases get the work very hard, but nevertheless the pays off, and so your style, your manner, your demeanor is more important than the content.
The price of this transaction and many salespeople think well, I didn’t get it because right, the price. Do I if we cut the price, but in reality you know, there’s an old saying when people are get annoyed, they say: well, it’s not what they said. It’s the way they said mhm, and so, if you look at your most successful salespeople, most successful negotiators, they have a style, a manner that other people relate to.
They feel nothing yeah and it’s true. I mean they always say that people remember how you made them feel not really what you said. It’s the same, if you can give an hour-long speech and people may not remember practically anything, you said, but they go wow. That was good. I really liked you know. I really felt that was engaging, and so I I take what you’re saying about sales number one. I think it’s a it’s a very good point.
It’s a fantastic profession, it’s unfortunately, it gets a bad rap, because popular culture loves to present it in a particular way. But this idea of a win-win, because sometimes people mistakenly think that if you don’t come away with more than the other person in a negotiation that you somehow lost, no, it’s not true. First of all, the last thing you negotiate is the quantifiable item. You save that to the end and you get people to invest in a relationship, see if I start out collaborative or cooperative.
Even if the other side thinks see this guy’s week, I’m going to conquer and destroy him, I’m going to get more pieces in fine cuz. He sounds funny, you know and look at me. He looks funny. He don’t look like a great top overpowering executive. No, and so what happens? Is they invest in the relationship and once people invest it’s hard for them to divest? You know. Rats at human beings have this in common, the more energy expended in pursuit of a particular goal, the more desirable that goal becomes, and so once people invest it’s hard for them, and so, if you kind of remember, is you know the emphasis upon your me manner? Your demeanor, it really helps you succeed, yeah and I think that’s and I think that’s true, so I think it’s a Kanaka said because if your salesperson and you negotiate with customer, it’s you know for the cost.
It’s also uncomfortable for many customers, because they, you know sometimes, if they’re not bringing in like procurement or something they’re, not they’re, not buying every day of the week and they’re, not negotiating so they’re, not they’re, not skilled. At that either look people want to establish relationship, in fact, the best people in our society who all of us are exposed to a great negotiators who start out as great negotiator the only people of children.
If you have kids, if you have contact with children, nieces nephews, you know that kids, who are little people in a big person’s world, technically have no authority or power seem to get a lot of what they want. How do they do it number one kids aim high. They end with unrealistic accepted all right, so they affect the thinking of the parent to the trying influence. The second thing the kids do is they believe that no is not really a final answer, but it’s an opening bargaining position.
So you tell a kid know: five minutes, ladies asking you again, it’s never over with this job. The third thing kids do is they form coalition’s? In other words, they say who can influence the decision make up the parents, other decision-makers, grandparents, so they form coalition’s with the GIMP grandparents against the parents. In fact, it’s easy for them to form that coalesced, because they have a common enemy, the parent.
What kids do is they persist? They persevere. I am my wife. We are the parents of three children. First child. We have these standards and rules very little exceptions. Second, kid: we have many more exception. Third, kid: we would tired people staying there 30 day, read: ask your brother and sister yeah used to be around here, and so, if we adopt the model of children just that we’re going to be more successful, I love that this is a great great way to Finish here, so it’s its aim, high form, coalition’s and be persistent, and then obviously it’s a win-win guy, because we mean at the end of the day anyway, because the kids are happy.
Parents are happy, life is good. Grandparents are happy, yes, well, listen herb! This has been fantastic before we go just like if you want to take a moment to tell people a little bit more about how they can contact you and learn. More probably, the best way to contact me is via email, /, h, er, b, Co AG and herb Cohen, four to seven at gmail.Com, great and listen herb. It’s been a fantastic, been a pleasure interviewing you.
I was really looking forward to it. I’m glad we were able to to make this work, and my name is John golden co-op online sales magazine pipeliner CRM SEO for another expert interview really soon. Thank you. Thank you.
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