Tag: Sales Expert Insight Series

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Online Marketing

Neuromarketing and Sales with Patrick Renvoise | Sales Expert Insight Series

My name is John golden from sails pop online says magazine, I’m pipeliner CRM and today I’m joined by Patrick wen Hua’s, a who is the author of the upcoming book, the persuasion code and your marketing can help you persuade anyone anywhere anytime. So welcome Patrick hey good afternoon John, so Patrick, you have been talking about neural marketing and you have you know you ordered another book before and you’ve been in this in this area.

You know for a long long time, so tell me a little bit about what is what is different about your book. That’s coming out in September, the the persuasion code. So what happened is about 17 years ago there was a new branch of marketing that was born called neural marketing, and here is the promise of newer marketing. The promise is that traditional marketing does not really work. Why? Because in traditional marketing, here is what we do.

We ask people: what do you want and then based on their answers? We won’t build a product and later we will create a strategy to sell that part, but the reality is that people don’t really know what they want. As a result, traditional marketing is very often detailing, and the promise of newer marketing was very different. The promise of newer marketing is that we would ask people what do you want, but we will not trust their self-reported answers.

Instead, we could measure directly on their bodies, values, physiological changes that indicate what people truly want so 17 years ago, the world was on fire when people started to use this, because the promise was just too good to be true, and so, if you fast forward 17 Years later, neural marketing has exploded in order today there are over a hundred companies in the world that offered various kinds of services around the home marketing, but it has not really delivered on its initial promise and it has not initially delivered why? Because there is not a single unifying model that explains what you find when you do these physiological measurements.

No word anybody can do various kinds of physiological measurements and by the way, those techniques go from very simple, very inexpensive ones. Where you can measure, for example, the eg on the head of people or you can in measure their emotion based on how to contract the 43 muscles on their faces, or you can measure how their skin changes react resistance. So all these measurements are very easy to do, but what’s really hard is how do you interpret them in a complete? You know sales and marketing approach.

In other words, how should an advertiser change its sales and marketing strategies based on those measurements? So, unfortunately, the initial promise of no marketing has not really delivered. So when we wrote our first book, we suggested that there might be a model that helps you guide everything you do not read them to make it really effective, but we had not tied all that model to all these measurements.

So, what’s continued in our new book is that we are now explaining how it really works, in other words, it’s a little bit like if you are talking about physics. As you know, in physics we are trying to unify the two basic physics model: the traditional physics, bye, doc, bye I’ll help me with his name. It was a British guys, future new Neutron, you use it and the quantum physics. So there is not a single unifying model yet, but we’re getting closer and closer well, there is no single unifying model of sales of marketing and our model, we believe, is their very first one.

That just does that. You know it’s a complete model that explains how people use their brain to make buying decisions and based on that, it helps any entrepreneur. Anybody who has to convince other people about what they need to do if they want to be more successful in sales and marketing. Right so so explain to the people, their listeners, who may not have come across this before or not really pay too much attention.

But why is it that you can’t trust what people initially say they want, or why is it that that neuroscience plays such a big role in really understanding what you know how people make decisions as opposed to what they say sure well think about it. If I ask you, imagine you walk in the restaurant and instead of offering you a menu, I ask you: what do you want to eat tonight? You see how embarrassing how difficult it is to figure out what you really want mm-hmm, whereas if you see that many of you, oh yeah, the chicken looks really good on the menu today.

So when people have to self-report what they really want or what they really like, they are going through the funnel of expressing with words what they want, and that does not allow them to really access the unconscious. As you know, in the mind, if you think about it, there is really a conscious part, which is only five to ten percent of who we are. And then there is this big iceberg underneath it, which is 90 percent of we are, and we really have access to that unconscious and asking people to access that unconscious.

By using words, you know, self-reported words is mission impossible. So the reality is people who really know what they want. However, our body does so, for example, when you get scared, you know you get the first signs of fear even before you’re aware that you’re scared, and today there are a number of tools that we can use to make those measurements. So, in essence, those measurements are allowing us to poke into the unconscious of people, and the techniques are very reliable in the past they used to be very complicated.

In other words, you needed a supercomputer, you needed 10 PhDs to run it and a big budget. Today, all these techniques admitted you know very affordable. In fact, some of these techniques are even accessible for free on the web. So how would you if you take this over the sales for a moment right, so you know sales people have to ask a lot of questions and do discovery and really try and uncover what somebody what a prospect is looking for.

So how does it play into that because, like you said I mean, maybe this is a difficult process for the actual customer. Yes, so in the case of myself, it way now is, if you take that idea and put it in the context of a one-on-one meeting between the buyer and a seller, I mean that what the very first task are the seller is really to understand what are Some of the negative thoughts that are going into the mind of the buyer, I mean in our book.

We call that the pain mm-hmm, but the unconscious pain we believe, are more important than the conscious pains and I’m going to give you an example right now. Imagine the seller is selling home, delivered pizza and the buyer is the average consumer of pizza mm-hmm, most people when you ask them. So what do you work when it comes to a pizza? You know people can talk about, they will tell you. I want extra pepperoni and I want cheese etc, but in reality there is a small company in the u.

S. That figured this out. But four years ago they figured out that not one pain of people buy home. Deliver pizza. I know almost like the unconscious pain. Is the anxiety of not knowing when the pizza will arrive right and again, it would be almost. It would be impossible for most people toward that, but we can measure it on a bun and figuring this out that no pizza shop came up with a slogan and never struggle.

It was 30 minutes or less for extreme mm-hm, and that little place is now known. As Domino’s Pizza – and they became number one now W speaking number one, not because they make the best pizza but because they were able to diagnose that pain and then they build a complete organization whose unique purpose is to eliminate that. So this is the case of Domino’s, going back to our case of a single one on one person selling the job of the sales guy is to read between the line of the answers that the person will that the person will given, but so, if I am That person trying to sell you, Domino’s Pizza, I’m going to ask you questions about, so you know you’re going to be home alone tonight.

What are some of the thoughts that go through your brain etc? And I’m going to try to force you to admit that you have this unconscious pain, but, as you can imagine, it’s a very difficult job. In other words, it’s a job which is more the job of a psychologist than it is the job of a salesperson, and that’s why salespeople typically, are not very good at doing this, because we train ourselves people to be good talkers.

Unfortunately, most of them are not good listeners and to throw a good diagnostic of that pain to find between the line where the consumer really wants. It takes somebody who has the capacity to listen very deeply, and it takes the capacity of people can ask the right questions and and a prospect or a customer. It’s one of the value drivers will reward you for uncovering something. You know a problem or a pain that they either didn’t know they had or did not weren’t aware that it was that acute right.

So that’s really where you logged in yeah, when you do that diagnostic of the pain properly there are two major benefit. The first benefit is it’s a soft way of selling. You know where you don’t have to say: well, we have the best product, I’m the best sales guy, no you’re, demonstrating your expertise, not by what you say, but by what you ask for by the quality of the questioning that you drive. So that’s the first thing.

The second thing is asking question: is the best way to develop rapport right, if you think about it, the people that are interesting, a lot of people that talk about himself. There are the people that talk to you about you. So, what’s the best way for me to talk to you about you, if you ask you question and so and so getting back, pivoting back a little to the neuro marketing piece. So when you look at at most companies marketing today say software products or whatever.

What do you see is the big problem with the kind of traditional marketing and how could people flip that using newer marketing? Well, the problem is that marketing well done typically is very expensive. I mean you need to do big surveys. You need to question a lot of people, so I think a lot of people think of marketing as an expensive task, but when I think about it, for us, Noora marketing is really what can help people differentiate between the what people think they want and what people Really want inside the unconscious and for a large company.

This is invaluable. You know I’ll give you just one example: we’re working for Avon, for example, and you know trying some of our techniques they’ve been able to see sales increase by up to 40 % for some of the shampoo products, because a lot of the ads that they were Doing were too focused on the product itself, etc, but it was not really addressing some of the core pains or negative emotion that resides in the brain of our consumers right.

So that is really the promise of no marketing it’s to help. People do focus everything. They talked about which typically centered on the mimimi, I mean most people, if you think about it most people when they talk about the products and services they talk about who they are and what they do, mm-hmm. In fact, if you look at all websites, most websites include a tab which is called who we are and another tab, which is called what we do, but the critical information that is missing there is: why should the customer buy right, and what we have seen is That noir marketing is the fastest surest way to get companies to quickly focus and now down on why the customer should buy.

So what are some other examples that you’ve seen of where somebody has done this? Well, where they’ve changed their marketing approach and and really hit the you know, hit the target. You know there are no many examples, but if you’re talking about Apple, for example, right the computer and phone company Steve Jobs by the way used to say we don’t do marketing at Apple, because the consumer doesn’t know – and I know better than them what they want.

So we’re going to build it if you’re, not in fact not completely wrong, we’re going to sell a lot of it, but Apple has been the champion of this now think about it. I’d like to take you back about 30 years ago. Why would people want to buy an Apple computer thirty years ago? There was only one reason think about 30 years ago. Yes, the reason is slightly different today. That’s why I’m bringing you back a few years back? Why would people buy a Macintosh when the main computer? Well, the main competitor at the time was the regular PC at the time they it was very specialized.

I mean there were people, maybe actually yes, designers and people like that who bought Max’s right and a few students. You know what was the main reason. Why? Because it was easier to use, you know what, if you were buying your PC, he didn’t have a degree in computer science. It would be very hard for you to use it right, so Macintosh make it easier for people so Apple use. That claim, in other words, the reason why you would want to buy your Apple computer years and years ago, was easier to use and slowly over time as computers became easier to use Apple to endorse another crime, and why would people buy an iPhone today? There’s still only one reason, but it’s slightly different.

It’s no one here to use because every four years is to use – and you know what it is: it’s cool to use cool yeah. So this again so Apple decided once and for all in the 35 year history. They went from a t1 claim, is it to use and they slowly switch to cool to use over a period of time, but they did that because they know that had been one crime. You know being able to write the book. Why buy enough? On the only one chapter mm-hm and hammering that chapter you know cause when Apple’s 20 years ago was selling a mirror.

It was always you know easy to use by creating that repetition by making it clear as to what is that one chapter in the book title? Why buy an Apple Apple has been extremely extremely successful, so Apple was using some of the concept that we are now explaining from a purely scientific standpoint for for many many years right so, but so basically BAM based on that, then, are you saying that most companies Should really look at uncovering that that one or two reasons, real reasons why a customers should buy from them absolute and it an it, and as you say, it’s not the obvious one in terms of it may not be they the product itself.

It may be something you know totally tangental even to it right absolutely I mean, if you think about it, easy to use and a Macintosh computer. It has nothing to do fast. Delivery has nothing to do with the pizza itself. In other words, unfortunately, if you’re selling your commodity, you will not be able to find what makes you unique in the product itself, because, by definition it’s a commodity, so you’ve got to find that one reason why people want to buy it and it’s going to be Outside of the product, functions and features itself, and all the companies that are successful have destroyed it for a long long time.

That’s excellent advice so before we finish up today, give me a little bit more information about when your book is available about your company about yourself and how people can learn more about you right. So our first book is the valuable you know it was written about. Fifteen years ago, so it’s still available. Our new book titled, the persuasion code, will be available in mid September, is published by ye, and the information is already available on amazon.

Com and what we are is we are the only advertising agency in the world that uses no marketing techniques to diagnose the pain of The customer and ours fine, the true motivation that drives people to buy. Then we are a strategic, consulting firm. We guide the choice of companies on what is that one chapter in your book and we train people on all these concepts and the last thing we do is we have a small, creative arm.

Then, once we have agreed on all this concept, they actually rhyme. So the concepts are, what are the pains in the brain of your customers, and how do you diagnose that then? The second concept is: how do you differentiate your claims numbers? How do you make your solution appear completely unique in the eyes of your customers, even if you’re selling commodity, we call that the claims? The third concept is, how do you demonstrate the game? No, it’s not enough to say I have the best product.

How do you actually prove it and how the volume so pain claim and gain, and the last step is: how do you deliver to the primal brain? In other words, how do you deliver your message to the unconscious of the consumer? Okay, so we packages we package, our services, so that small companies and not company alike, can see benefit in applying a model that is again completely anchored in the science of the human right.

Yeah, it’s fascinating stuff and I’ve had the pleasure of seeing Patrick speak before so I would highly recommend that you, you check out the sales brain and check out Patrick and check out his book and I think you’ll find it extremely fascinating. So listen thanks again, Patrick for joining us. Today. We look forward to to your book and to seen the model in you know its glory coming out in September and then learning more about this fascinating subject.

So thank you for joining us today. My name is John Gould and sales pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM will see all for another expert inside interview really soon. Thank you, John. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our You, Tube blog and then comment get involved in the conversation, love to hear what you have to say.

Websites help sell stuff! Do you have one?

 

Categories
Online Marketing

Neuromarketing and Sales with Patrick Renvoise | Sales Expert Insight Series

My name is John golden from sails pop online says magazine, I’m pipeliner CRM and today I’m joined by Patrick wen Hua’s, a who is the author of the upcoming book, the persuasion code and your marketing can help you persuade anyone anywhere anytime. So welcome Patrick hey good afternoon John, so Patrick, you have been talking about neural marketing and you have you know you ordered another book before and you’ve been in this in this area.

You know for a long long time, so tell me a little bit about what is what is different about your book. That’s coming out in September, the the persuasion code. So what happened is about 17 years ago there was a new branch of marketing that was born called neural marketing, and here is the promise of newer marketing. The promise is that traditional marketing does not really work. Why? Because in traditional marketing, here is what we do.

We ask people: what do you want and then based on their answers? We won’t build a product and later we will create a strategy to sell that part, but the reality is that people don’t really know what they want. As a result, traditional marketing is very often detailing, and the promise of newer marketing was very different. The promise of newer marketing is that we would ask people what do you want, but we will not trust their self-reported answers.

Instead, we could measure directly on their bodies, values, physiological changes that indicate what people truly want so 17 years ago, the world was on fire when people started to use this, because the promise was just too good to be true, and so, if you fast forward 17 Years later, neural marketing has exploded in order today there are over a hundred companies in the world that offered various kinds of services around the home marketing, but it has not really delivered on its initial promise and it has not initially delivered why? Because there is not a single unifying model that explains what you find when you do these physiological measurements.

No word anybody can do various kinds of physiological measurements and by the way, those techniques go from very simple, very inexpensive ones. Where you can measure, for example, the eg on the head of people or you can in measure their emotion based on how to contract the 43 muscles on their faces, or you can measure how their skin changes react resistance. So all these measurements are very easy to do, but what’s really hard is how do you interpret them in a complete? You know sales and marketing approach.

In other words, how should an advertiser change its sales and marketing strategies based on those measurements? So, unfortunately, the initial promise of no marketing has not really delivered. So when we wrote our first book, we suggested that there might be a model that helps you guide everything you do not read them to make it really effective, but we had not tied all that model to all these measurements.

So, what’s continued in our new book is that we are now explaining how it really works, in other words, it’s a little bit like if you are talking about physics. As you know, in physics we are trying to unify the two basic physics model: the traditional physics, bye, doc, bye I’ll help me with his name. It was a British guys, future new Neutron, you use it and the quantum physics. So there is not a single unifying model yet, but we’re getting closer and closer well, there is no single unifying model of sales of marketing and our model, we believe, is their very first one.

That just does that. You know it’s a complete model that explains how people use their brain to make buying decisions and based on that, it helps any entrepreneur. Anybody who has to convince other people about what they need to do if they want to be more successful in sales and marketing. Right so so explain to the people, their listeners, who may not have come across this before or not really pay too much attention.

But why is it that you can’t trust what people initially say they want, or why is it that that neuroscience plays such a big role in really understanding what you know how people make decisions as opposed to what they say sure well think about it. If I ask you, imagine you walk in the restaurant and instead of offering you a menu, I ask you: what do you want to eat tonight? You see how embarrassing how difficult it is to figure out what you really want mm-hmm, whereas if you see that many of you, oh yeah, the chicken looks really good on the menu today.

So when people have to self-report what they really want or what they really like, they are going through the funnel of expressing with words what they want, and that does not allow them to really access the unconscious. As you know, in the mind, if you think about it, there is really a conscious part, which is only five to ten percent of who we are. And then there is this big iceberg underneath it, which is 90 percent of we are, and we really have access to that unconscious and asking people to access that unconscious.

By using words, you know, self-reported words is mission impossible. So the reality is people who really know what they want. However, our body does so, for example, when you get scared, you know you get the first signs of fear even before you’re aware that you’re scared, and today there are a number of tools that we can use to make those measurements. So, in essence, those measurements are allowing us to poke into the unconscious of people, and the techniques are very reliable in the past they used to be very complicated.

In other words, you needed a supercomputer, you needed 10 PhDs to run it and a big budget. Today, all these techniques admitted you know very affordable. In fact, some of these techniques are even accessible for free on the web. So how would you if you take this over the sales for a moment right, so you know sales people have to ask a lot of questions and do discovery and really try and uncover what somebody what a prospect is looking for.

So how does it play into that because, like you said I mean, maybe this is a difficult process for the actual customer. Yes, so in the case of myself, it way now is, if you take that idea and put it in the context of a one-on-one meeting between the buyer and a seller, I mean that what the very first task are the seller is really to understand what are Some of the negative thoughts that are going into the mind of the buyer, I mean in our book.

We call that the pain mm-hmm, but the unconscious pain we believe, are more important than the conscious pains and I’m going to give you an example right now. Imagine the seller is selling home, delivered pizza and the buyer is the average consumer of pizza mm-hmm, most people when you ask them. So what do you work when it comes to a pizza? You know people can talk about, they will tell you. I want extra pepperoni and I want cheese etc, but in reality there is a small company in the u.

S. That figured this out. But four years ago they figured out that not one pain of people buy home. Deliver pizza. I know almost like the unconscious pain. Is the anxiety of not knowing when the pizza will arrive right and again, it would be almost. It would be impossible for most people toward that, but we can measure it on a bun and figuring this out that no pizza shop came up with a slogan and never struggle.

It was 30 minutes or less for extreme mm-hm, and that little place is now known. As Domino’s Pizza – and they became number one now W speaking number one, not because they make the best pizza but because they were able to diagnose that pain and then they build a complete organization whose unique purpose is to eliminate that. So this is the case of Domino’s, going back to our case of a single one on one person selling the job of the sales guy is to read between the line of the answers that the person will that the person will given, but so, if I am That person trying to sell you, Domino’s Pizza, I’m going to ask you questions about, so you know you’re going to be home alone tonight.

What are some of the thoughts that go through your brain etc? And I’m going to try to force you to admit that you have this unconscious pain, but, as you can imagine, it’s a very difficult job. In other words, it’s a job which is more the job of a psychologist than it is the job of a salesperson, and that’s why salespeople typically, are not very good at doing this, because we train ourselves people to be good talkers.

Unfortunately, most of them are not good listeners and to throw a good diagnostic of that pain to find between the line where the consumer really wants. It takes somebody who has the capacity to listen very deeply, and it takes the capacity of people can ask the right questions and and a prospect or a customer. It’s one of the value drivers will reward you for uncovering something. You know a problem or a pain that they either didn’t know they had or did not weren’t aware that it was that acute right.

So that’s really where you logged in yeah, when you do that diagnostic of the pain properly there are two major benefit. The first benefit is it’s a soft way of selling. You know where you don’t have to say: well, we have the best product, I’m the best sales guy, no you’re, demonstrating your expertise, not by what you say, but by what you ask for by the quality of the questioning that you drive. So that’s the first thing.

The second thing is asking question: is the best way to develop rapport right, if you think about it, the people that are interesting, a lot of people that talk about himself. There are the people that talk to you about you. So, what’s the best way for me to talk to you about you, if you ask you question and so and so getting back, pivoting back a little to the neuro marketing piece. So when you look at at most companies marketing today say software products or whatever.

What do you see is the big problem with the kind of traditional marketing and how could people flip that using newer marketing? Well, the problem is that marketing well done typically is very expensive. I mean you need to do big surveys. You need to question a lot of people, so I think a lot of people think of marketing as an expensive task, but when I think about it, for us, Noora marketing is really what can help people differentiate between the what people think they want and what people Really want inside the unconscious and for a large company.

This is invaluable. You know I’ll give you just one example: we’re working for Avon, for example, and you know trying some of our techniques they’ve been able to see sales increase by up to 40 % for some of the shampoo products, because a lot of the ads that they were Doing were too focused on the product itself, etc, but it was not really addressing some of the core pains or negative emotion that resides in the brain of our consumers right.

So that is really the promise of no marketing it’s to help. People do focus everything. They talked about which typically centered on the mimimi, I mean most people, if you think about it most people when they talk about the products and services they talk about who they are and what they do, mm-hmm. In fact, if you look at all websites, most websites include a tab which is called who we are and another tab, which is called what we do, but the critical information that is missing there is: why should the customer buy right, and what we have seen is That noir marketing is the fastest surest way to get companies to quickly focus and now down on why the customer should buy.

So what are some other examples that you’ve seen of where somebody has done this? Well, where they’ve changed their marketing approach and and really hit the you know, hit the target. You know there are no many examples, but if you’re talking about Apple, for example, right the computer and phone company Steve Jobs by the way used to say we don’t do marketing at Apple, because the consumer doesn’t know – and I know better than them what they want.

So we’re going to build it if you’re, not in fact not completely wrong, we’re going to sell a lot of it, but Apple has been the champion of this now think about it. I’d like to take you back about 30 years ago. Why would people want to buy an Apple computer thirty years ago? There was only one reason think about 30 years ago. Yes, the reason is slightly different today. That’s why I’m bringing you back a few years back? Why would people buy a Macintosh when the main computer? Well, the main competitor at the time was the regular PC at the time they it was very specialized.

I mean there were people, maybe actually yes, designers and people like that who bought Max’s right and a few students. You know what was the main reason. Why? Because it was easier to use, you know what, if you were buying your PC, he didn’t have a degree in computer science. It would be very hard for you to use it right, so Macintosh make it easier for people so Apple use. That claim, in other words, the reason why you would want to buy your Apple computer years and years ago, was easier to use and slowly over time as computers became easier to use Apple to endorse another crime, and why would people buy an iPhone today? There’s still only one reason, but it’s slightly different.

It’s no one here to use because every four years is to use – and you know what it is: it’s cool to use cool yeah. So this again so Apple decided once and for all in the 35 year history. They went from a t1 claim, is it to use and they slowly switch to cool to use over a period of time, but they did that because they know that had been one crime. You know being able to write the book. Why buy enough? On the only one chapter mm-hm and hammering that chapter you know cause when Apple’s 20 years ago was selling a mirror.

It was always you know easy to use by creating that repetition by making it clear as to what is that one chapter in the book title? Why buy an Apple Apple has been extremely extremely successful, so Apple was using some of the concept that we are now explaining from a purely scientific standpoint for for many many years right so, but so basically BAM based on that, then, are you saying that most companies Should really look at uncovering that that one or two reasons, real reasons why a customers should buy from them absolute and it an it, and as you say, it’s not the obvious one in terms of it may not be they the product itself.

It may be something you know totally tangental even to it right absolutely I mean, if you think about it, easy to use and a Macintosh computer. It has nothing to do fast. Delivery has nothing to do with the pizza itself. In other words, unfortunately, if you’re selling your commodity, you will not be able to find what makes you unique in the product itself, because, by definition it’s a commodity, so you’ve got to find that one reason why people want to buy it and it’s going to be Outside of the product, functions and features itself, and all the companies that are successful have destroyed it for a long long time.

That’s excellent advice so before we finish up today, give me a little bit more information about when your book is available about your company about yourself and how people can learn more about you right. So our first book is the valuable you know it was written about. Fifteen years ago, so it’s still available. Our new book titled, the persuasion code, will be available in mid September, is published by ye, and the information is already available on amazon.

Com and what we are is we are the only advertising agency in the world that uses no marketing techniques to diagnose the pain of The customer and ours fine, the true motivation that drives people to buy. Then we are a strategic, consulting firm. We guide the choice of companies on what is that one chapter in your book and we train people on all these concepts and the last thing we do is we have a small, creative arm.

Then, once we have agreed on all this concept, they actually rhyme. So the concepts are, what are the pains in the brain of your customers, and how do you diagnose that then? The second concept is: how do you differentiate your claims numbers? How do you make your solution appear completely unique in the eyes of your customers, even if you’re selling commodity, we call that the claims? The third concept is, how do you demonstrate the game? No, it’s not enough to say I have the best product.

How do you actually prove it and how the volume so pain claim and gain, and the last step is: how do you deliver to the primal brain? In other words, how do you deliver your message to the unconscious of the consumer? Okay, so we packages we package, our services, so that small companies and not company alike, can see benefit in applying a model that is again completely anchored in the science of the human right.

Yeah, it’s fascinating stuff and I’ve had the pleasure of seeing Patrick speak before so I would highly recommend that you, you check out the sales brain and check out Patrick and check out his book and I think you’ll find it extremely fascinating. So listen thanks again, Patrick for joining us. Today. We look forward to to your book and to seen the model in you know its glory coming out in September and then learning more about this fascinating subject.

So thank you for joining us today. My name is John Gould and sales pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM will see all for another expert inside interview really soon. Thank you, John. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our You, Tube blog and then comment get involved in the conversation, love to hear what you have to say.

Websites help sell stuff! Do you have one?

 

Categories
Online Marketing

Become An Expert Salesperson with Douglas Kruger | Sales Expert Insight Series

My name is John golden from sails pop online sales magazine and pipeliner CRM, and today I am delighted to be joined by Douglas Krueger, who is in lovely Johannesburg, South Africa? How you doing Douglas says it’ll be with you, John thanks, so much for having me yeah absolutely and it’s late evening. Your time, I presume indeed it’s very late evening, my wife and I manage to read a movie she’s gone off to bed and I’m still enduring so.

Okay. Well Douglas. Just let me introduce you, he is an author of six business books, including the highly acclaimed own. Your own industry, how to position yourself as an expert and that’s where we’re going to focus in today he’s worked with multiple large clients, household names like BMW, but tell me Douglas okay own your own, your industry, how to position yourself as an expert? Why is that relevant to everybody, as opposed to just a small number of people? Well, absolutely.

The the starting point in positioning yourself isn’t as an expert is that it is a choice. People will make and in fact not a great many people vie for that premium level of competition, and for that reason, although we’re what I’m encouraging is that you aim higher, there’s, certainly less noise at the top of the market. So that’s one of the the advantages to it. It also helps us to hit a much more visceral note in terms of our marketing, rather than sounding like a low level salesperson, we actually speak at a different level.

It’s it’s a little at which we start creating tribes of followers and actually, in a sense, are depicting a type of lifestyle, a type of persona and a way of being and done at its highest level. It actually helps people to to actualize themselves and to realize who they want. So how would you advise somebody? So if I’m a salesperson right and yeah I’ve been doing okay, I mean now you’ve been bumping along here, but I feel like I really want to go for it I want to.

I want to be more successful in Excel. What are some of the first steps? I can take towards, as you say, actual izing that well one of the things that I think is a little counterintuitive that most people don’t do is to give away your best ideas for free. When we look at it from a sales perspective, we often we have a sense of being guarded or being a little reserved about how much information we actually want to give away.

There’s always that nagging doubt in the back of our minds that if we give too much, we’ve essentially furnished the solution for free, I believe that the exact opposite is the case. I believe that, when we’re very generous with what we know, rather than just selling to people we’re sharing ways forward, and I find that what tends to happen is that people come to us for the implementation and I’ve seen this.

I’ve been very blessed to see this. In my own career and in that of other speakers, experts, coaches people involved in the world of sales, the more they’re giving and the more they’re helping people to become what they want to become. The more clients come to them. For the the implementation of that ideal, and in a best-case scenario we want to be hearing that phrase, someone told me you’re the person to talk to about now.

What I try and focus on is: how do you become synonymous with an idea? So I go a little bit beyond the idea of simply being say a topic matter, expert or being a being technically good at what you do, and I start asking questions like how do how do you become so synonymous with an industry that it’s almost impossible to Talk about it without referencing you and the top names that spring to mind. Over time I mean you, you can’t speak about, say bodybuilding without speaking of arnold schwarzenegger and you can’t say data’ and TV talk shows without referencing, oprah and so on and so forth and Schwarzenegger is an interesting one and it plays into what we’re discussing here, because He is not technically the most highly accomplished.

Bodybuilder of all time, he’s won mr. Olympia seven times. There are two gentlemen who have wanted eight separate times, and yet, whenever I speak for audiences, I put up the phrase bodybuilding on a screen and I say quick: what’s the first name? Is France Mike? It’s always always Arnold yeah, exactly yeah. So, there’s a lot that we can learn from that and obviously his television appearances and so forth play into it.

But that’s part of what we’re talking about when we say expert positioning, it’s this combination of teaching leading being a personality and very much of being in the public eye. So so how would um and and I agree with everything you said there, but so from from a lot of salespeople – they, while they’re great, if you put them in a room one-on-one with a customer or you put them on the phone or you can put them On with the buying committee, you know they’re great in those situations, but if you say to them now, you’re going to really expose yourself to a much broader audience, maybe one that they don’t even see them get kind of uncomfortable.

In that air arena absolutely – and I mean you know the old joke that does the round about the the fear of public speaking being greater than the fear of death, and the conclusion we can draw from that is that at your average funeral most people would rather Be the guy in the box, but there’s immense power in that, and in fact, of course it’s a very human fear. It’s not the fear of speaking itself.

It’s the fear of being judged – and I think one-one constructive way around. That is for us to realize that we’re not actually there to be judged we’re there to give value to a group of people who don’t know as much as we do. If you have something that teachers a group helps, a group of people shows a way forward. It’s not self-serving to stand up in front of a group and do it you’re actually giving something that is very valuable to people and of course you can do it on different gradients.

You know, though, you don’t have to throw yourself into the deep end and stand up in an auditorium and atriums be for 10,000 people on your first try. You could, for example, craft a small youtube article that gives 10 tips two or three ways to and gives genuine value for free and once again, I return to that idea of saying give away your best ideas for free. Let them come to you for the implementation.

Don’t hold anything back yeah and so that then, obviously will build a level of trust right, because I mean, if you’re, giving out information you’re helping somebody, then they’ll tend to trust you more and though, if you like they’ll get past the idea of this confrontational salesperson. Buyer relationship and I think I think that’s one of the key – the key elements there and but to me also again from again from a salesperson point of view.

I mean you know becoming the expert, you know owning and just you really becoming the expert again. You know a lot of people would say. Well you know I’m I’m pretty good. I mean, I know some stuff expert. I don’t know whether I’m good, I don’t know whether I’m comfortable putting myself forward as yes, ok. This returns me to to what I believe is that the the heart and soul of genuinely becoming a recognized icon in your industry, where I believe it’s a three-part equation and I think most people tend to to get the one idea and miss the other two.

And I believe that experts exist at the intersection of three different qualities. If you don’t have all three working together simultaneously, you can actually disqualify yourself as an expert now the first one is the one we tend to think of intuitively. When we hear that phrase – and that’s that’s knowledge and knowledge is a broad catch-all term, when we say knowledge, we mean technical ability capacity, you know your stuff, it’s the ability to do the thing that you do.

But now it’s interesting is when you start to study the really top names in every industry. They are not necessarily the most technically qualified people, there’s something else going on there. They know their stuff backwards and forwards. Make no mistake about that, but there are often people who are more technically qualified than them yet less well known, and often these are people who are not remunerated on the same scale and that’s fascinating to us.

So the other two elements, in addition to knowledge, are personality and publicity and in any industry that I’ve studied looking at this idea of of experts and icons, I always find that that one comes to the fore and, of course it’s again it gets a fear reaction From us, because if we’re not very loud verbose, over-the-top charismatic personalities, we tend to think well that disqualifies me and I genuinely believe that that’s not the case at all.

If you look at, let’s take a world like say, the world of professional shifts, Jamie Oliver from the United Kingdom has become a global phenomenon, one of his books launched awhile ago. In fact, the the first book called The Naked Chef. You know millions of them sold worldwide. People bought them, flipped them open found. It was nothing but recipes. They were sorely disappointed, but what’s interesting about that is that Jamie Oliver is a fairly quiet, down-to-earth, bloke, next door, kind of character and he’s not allowed over-the-top person.

Like Seiya at Jeremy, Clarkson in the world of cars or any other big personality, we we care to think of, but here’s the key. We know Jamie Oliver, we recognize his face, we know his voice and we are familiar with his personality. So that’s as a result of the third thing, which is publicity, knowledge, personality, publicity put those three together and you have the core makings of an industry expert take one out of the equation and you actually disqualify yourself from the potential of being a recognized icon and The way I always like to phrase it with my audiences, as I say, if you have all the knowledge but no personality, you are a specialist if you have all listen, allottee, but no knowledge.

You are very good. I like it. So, that’s all that’s interesting and, as you said, I mean the personality piece because that’s been misused over years where people say there are personality types, but you can you know a good personality is a very subjective thing anyway right, and so it doesn’t have to be One type or the other and then the publicity I mean, I guess that’s the piece nowadays, where there’s no real excuse.

Is it because you have all the tools. I mean us, as individuals now have tools that we could only have dreamed of years ago. This might come surprising to anybody who’s under the age of 30, but all of these wonderful tools that didn’t exist absolutely so really leverage so really leveraging. Those tools for the publicity piece is key right. Yes, and also, you know why you mentioned levy the newness of the tools I’d like to throw in as a seemingly contradictory idea, which is that the classic skills still win out and what I mean by that is when you study someone like say, Jeremy Clarkson, who Is famously fired from top gear after a year altercation with his producer, he speaks about how the new top gear is struggling and he did it with uncharacteristic restraint, but he pointed out something that I found fascinating.

He said when you look at the credits. There is no written by and it used to be written by Jeremy Clarkson now Clarkson for all he sort of buffoonery is an incredibly strong writer and he says you know people would apply a young men. Young ladies, would apply to the Top Gear show and they would talk about their love of cars and he would say well yeah, that’s all very well, but can you write? Well, that’s the heart and soul of it, and I think those old classic skills can really set you apart in a world.

That’s perhaps not using them as much as it should, and another example that speaks to my mind is from from the United States, his micro. The globally famous host of dirty jobs on our Discovery, Channel, yes, yeah now as a sort of a suit-wearing person who spends most of his life in conferences and drinking coffee, the world’s most unlikely candidate to follow micro. I have zero interest in dirty jobs.

However, the man’s skill with words hid the beauty of his writing, his wit, his humor and his intellect ensure that I am one of his greatest fans and I think there’s something quite profound about that. You know when we, when we step aside from the sort of the the classical sales role, and we admit to ourselves, that we’re talking to human beings, intelligent human beings who respect good writing good humour, good personality.

There is a great deal of value to the mind in those it yeah. I have to say I’m glad you brought that up, because it’s it’s one of the it’s one of my look at soap boxes as well, because I do believe that it’s a terrible thing. But today you as a salesperson or or is anybody a professional? You can differentiate yourself by being polite by not but not being over familiar with people before you know them and, as you say, by writing, well and actually paying attention to what you’re writing.

I really think ya can differentiate you, because I think people there’s it’s become so casual that it’s it’s just become lazy and kind of almost you know insulting right yeah. So I think the human mind sits up and pays attention when it perceives something of a little bit of quality and there’s a fabulous book by Steven Pinker and that the title eludes me now. I think it’s called the sense of style and it’s a book about writing in general, but he uses a fabulous phrase and he comes at it from a sort of a neuro psychology point of view and he says style earns trust.

He goes into a lot of the signs behind it, but the very simple version is: when people see that we pay attention to small details, whether it’s in writing, whether it’s in how we go about treating others whatever the case might be, that small sense of style Convinces people that there is a greater intellect behind it and that here is a person who can be trusted can be taken seriously. You almost earn merit points beyond what you’re actually do by simple shows of of care for small things.

So I think I think that phrase is really profound. That style earns I’m a hundred percent believer in that also believe that you can, you can never be. You can never be too polite right. You can certainly be the opposite, but I don’t think you can be too polite and and it’s better to start off being formal, as opposed to start off being familiar with that earning that right and and my my other one is, I was believe you will never Get you will never get docked points for being overdressed? Yes, because I’ve done it myself in the past, like I’ve, shown up in a suit and tie for a meeting with people and they’ve all been in t-shirts and shorts, but hey nobody’s going to say well, look at him they’re going to say you know you still Going to gradually respect you, but if I turn it up to a room of people who were in shirts and ties, and I was in t-shirt and shorts, I’m kind of the same reaction right.

Yes, I can think of only one example that contradicts that. But it’s such a bizarre when I divert I just share it with ya: go we have a speaker from Johannesburg and he’s he’s globally famous by the name of Clem Sunter he’s a futurist in Scenario planner, who was the ex chairperson of anglo-american corporations, a very high-level He said he’s a very intelligent, very charming man, but because of this very high level of success, the dynamic reverses for him.

He stands on a stage in a very baggy Jersey, hands in pocket laughs at his own jokes and he comes across as an absent-minded professor type, and it’s it’s very charming. But absolutely I agree with your point. If I had to do it, it would just simply look disrespect yeah, I mean exactly. I mean we see the Steve Jobs, I mean when you get to that stage. You can basis name your own uniform right, yes versus because it looks so charming to be human.

Exactly exactly it’s perfect, so tell me in the last few minutes we have here. You know tell me another couple of aspects about how you advise people other than you know, reading your book. But what are another couple of ways? People could start to elevate. The idea of themselves of an expert – or, if you get their head around, even attempting to do that. Yes, absolutely I I think one of the mistakes people tend to make early on is they find it difficult to calibrate what level of expert they are and because we all have some degree of humility, hopefully built into the psyche? We find it hard to say I am an expert and in fact you shouldn’t an expert is something that someone else calls you who then, and what what we want to do is start off with a certain level of humility.

That says, I know this much and that’s what I can teach and as your knowledge grows, you can teach a broader and broader base and you can share with more and more people on, say, an increasingly global level and that that simple little equation I find helps People to let go of a great deal of the fear and insecurity around the idea of being an expert. If you do not have the the insight into physics of someone who’s been around, studying it for decades.

Well, teach at the level of say a primary school teacher and you are an expert to a group of people who know less than you and there’s something Noble and something beautiful about that and that’s fine and, as you grow more your your influence expands. So don’t out claim what you actually know and there you know that that way you never get caught out and in fact, one of the things that I like to challenge people.

Whenever we speak about this topic, so I say the first time you speak as a recognized expert in a public forum in the Q & A session, at least once you should say to someone I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that question and there’s nothing wrong with that, and I think it’s a very healthy thing to do. Not only does it actually build credibility with the audience, but it keeps you at a certain level that says it’s.

Okay, not to know more than I do. That’s that’s a great that’s a great tip. Actually, I love that one. That’s a great takeaway for people out there is to be able to confidently say I don’t know the answer to that. I’m sorry because otherwise, if we’ve seen too many people pass where you know you stand, then you think. Oh, I just got asked a question. I don’t know so now my brain is going to go into overdrive, coming out with some nonsense to try as experts there’s no upside to it.

Yeah absolutely well. Listen. Douglas has been a great a great conversation that we could talk a lot more and hopefully we will. Hopefully you come back and talk again soon, but before we go I’d like you to tell the audience a little bit more about yourself how they can find out more about you, yes, certainly most of what I do is the the writing. I write books that are entrepreneurial in nature and I speak on the same topics.

My articles and articles are all available on my website, which is Douglas, Kruger, CEO and I’m going to say, dot Z, a in South Africa. We would say: Zed a and I’ve got a little weekly motivational newsletter called from amateur to expert and the idea behind that is every week I send out one free tip that says: here’s the way amateurs would do it. Here’s the way experts would do it. Let’s raise the standards, well, listen Douglas Kruger in South Africa in Johannesburg.

Thank you for joining us. My name is John golden says. Pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM, see you all for another expert interview really soon. Thank you. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales popped on net. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our YouTube blog and then comment get involved in the conversation, love to hear what you have to say.

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Ethics in Sales with Richard Forrest | Sales Expert Insight Series

My name is John Dolan from sales pop online says magazine and pipeliner CRM, and today I am joined by Richard Forrest, who is in Sydney, Australia welcome Richard. Thank you very much, John yeah nice to see you today and Richard is the managing director of the fmg group and today. What we really wanted to talk about is ethics and sales, and why ethics and honesty matters and let’s face it when most people, particularly outside of sales, shall we say when most people think of sales, they don’t necessarily think of ethics and honesty.

That’s not the first thing that comes to their minds right. They always think oh yeah. It could be wary of salespeople because they’re a bit slippery. So let’s talk Richard. Why do you think ethics and honesty is so important? And how do you better project that, as a salesperson yeah, I think I think is so important to everything we do and you see almost tends to get a bit of a bad reputation for that? I think it’s because some people do have underhanded practices, but for me the reason for honesty other than it being a core value.

Is that it’s a long term approach to whatever you do, if you’re dishonest in a sales presentation, inevitably nothing it no sale, goes under percent smoothly from beginning to end something’s going to come undone and if you haven’t got in the bank, some honesty and credibility to Back you up it’s very hard to overcome load and you end up with a very unhappy customer. So right from the outset, I think demonstrating honesty and integrity and means you can build a great client relationship and it builds your brand and your own personal image yeah.

I I couldn’t, I couldn’t agree more because, as you say, there are things that are going to come up during a sales process and building the building that the trust factor is huge. But so how do you go about that? Because, as I said again, I mean people aren’t just going to trust you just because you show up right, you’re going to have to be improve that. So how do you go about that as a salesperson? Well, I think I think initially it’s making sure you don’t over promise, it’s doing the right thing by the person and showing them respect so, whether you’re talking to them or their PA, show them honesty and dignity and when you’re actually selling be honest with what you’re Doing and don’t over promise, don’t oversell somebody’s looking for a product or solution that you can provide.

They are looking for your solution, but if what I’m looking for is inside the remit of what you could provide, the best thing you can do is tell them that, because if they still decide to choose you – and they may well do at least they do – that With their eyes open, and so I think the key thing is make sure when you’re presenting your product, you do so honestly clearly know over-promising. Yes, so that’s a and that’s a difficult thing sometimes because, let’s face it most salespeople, are you know optimist by nature? I mean you have to have a certain kind of crazy optimism to be in sales right because you suffer from so much rejection, so sometimes there’s the temptation to like try and fit the square peg into the round hole, and it’s not necessarily being dishonest.

It’s just that you’re so enthusiastic and trying desperately to make this fit for the customer, even though when it’s patently it’s not going to. So how do you? How do you encourage a salesperson to overcome that? To take that step back and say: okay is what I’m doing now. Really the right thing. I think that’s exactly right. It’s it comes down to doing the right thing and the right thing is not just doing the right thing for my bonus check at the end of the month.

It’s about doing the right thing by the customer and it’s doing the right thing by the company and it’s also doing the right thing by the operations team who are probably going to have to deliver on what you’ve sold. And if you get all of those things wrong, you’re going to get a wealth of pain from all of those different people, so actually in some ways you learn fairly quickly. You can’t overstep too much, but I really think that the approach that I really focus on when I’m selling and when I’m talking to people about selling, is one of asking really good questions of the customer to find out exactly what you need.

You don’t need to overcomplicate, but you do do need to find out exactly what they’re looking for and if you can do that you can say to them. This is what we can provide this. What we can’t sometimes they’ll choose a competitor over you, but many times. If that’s been oversold, they’ll come back to you at the end of it and say you know what we bought the wrong one, we’ll all a total to your game, but that sort of long-term approach makes a big difference.

Ya know I like that. I did the idea of you know qualifying properly asking the proper questions, because I mean: let’s face it. Sometimes again, I said enthusiasm or optimism or something takes over and says people tend to skid past the qualifying phase a little bit too quickly and that obviously leads to problems down the road. So so, when you’re working with with salespeople, how do you get them to kind of you know slow down cooler, jets, a moment and and and really get into the questioning phase and qualify properly? So how do you revise them together? I think they they sorry say again.

No I’m saying how do you advise them to do that yeah? I always advise them to, as you say, take it slowly and understand that the client’s needs, because you’ve got something which can do a whole range of stuff, and only some of that is going to be what your client needs. So there’s no point in talking to them about things: they don’t need and therefore qualifying them and taking the time to understand exactly what they can’t they’re their pain points in this situation are is really vital.

I think one of the best things that a salesperson can do is see their clients problems through their clients eyes, because when you can do that, you can identify what the issues are for them and where your service or product can fit in. So my counseling always is take your time build your questions, understand what are the key questions and then view the problem from the customers solid and because you’ll build a really good rapport with them.

They’ll understand that you understand their issue and they’ll also open up and they’ll, be much more likely to trust you, because it’s not just about finding an issue and selling on that issue. It’s about finding exactly whether desintegration those yeah, it’s always an interesting. It was fascinating to me bit it’s an interesting phenomena that sometimes we forget that we’re consumers ourselves that we’re buyers ourselves and and sometimes and, as you say in a sales situation, says people forget to put themselves in the shoes of the buyer.

Yet you know they’re in the shoes of the buyer, all the time themselves personally, whether it’s buying consumer goods or whatever themselves. So that’s a really that’s a really critical piece is that empathy, peas are putting them in their shoes, but it just doesn’t seem to come. Naturally, to everybody, why do you think that is? I think I think too many people are focused on making the sale on the outcome and not the process.

One of the first things I learnt in sales is that you don’t make a sale by doing a lousy presentation and posing really hard if you can leave sales that way, but it’s rare the way the way to make sales is in the presentation phase and the Presentation phase is not a verbal monologue of the sales person present or talking at the prospect. It’s about a two-way conversation where the two people are aligned – and you will know this when, when you meet somebody and you gel with them you’re having a conversation back and forwards, and you find things in common, the same is true in sales.

The sales person needs to find what they have in common solution, wise with that prospect, as well as building rapport and when they do that they go on a journey together, it’s not a one-way giving of information. It’s absolutely two people together. Taking that journey understanding what needs to be done, and so by taking the focus off the result at the end and the cloves put it into the presentation and having that presentation being a two-way process, not a one-way process, and because, when you get to the close Likelihood is the survey the client is going to say, okay.

So what are the next steps you don’t actually have to if you put your your energy in the right area? So so it’s an interesting point that you raise right. I mean it’s about having obviously engaging in that conversation. Getting that kind of rapport going and – and I think part of that is you know that you have to recognize that especially a b2b sales right. You know, there’s a lot riding on behalf, the buyer right.

It can be, it can be a career enhancing or a career, limiting decision that they make. Depending on how that works out, and I think going that empathy and really drilling down in that early conversation, you know, can really make a big difference. So how do you also advise your salespeople to go beyond like surface level questioning in order to really get down to what’s going on with with the buyer, with the buying committee with the company? All those other factors are may come into play.

Yeah then you’re absolutely right, you’re generally selling to one of several people who go fine from you and so again that’s the reason for building a great relationship, rapport and um ability a good conversation with that decision maker because they have to take their conversation with you. The salesperson back to the other members of a team and sell it to them, and so they need to be able to do that effectively.

It’s very hard to third-person sell. But if you believe that the person who sold to you is being honest and it’s given you a really good solution, it’s much much easier. So I always suggest try and get as many of the buyers people in the room if you can. But if you can’t make sure that you’re talking about the the problems that exist not just in the the people who are present in that meeting, not just in their areas of the business but also in the affiliated areas of the business, because that’s what they’re going To translate back to their colleagues, so if you’re talking to the head of Finance but there’s an IT component about what you’re talking about, if you can talk to that head of finance about what the IT person is likely to be suffering from the head of finance, Is going to go back to IT and talk about that? It’s going to resonate so you’re, bringing the other buyers in without a and and that again is building more trust and credibility.

Right because you do that, you have initiated that connection. Yes, that’s exactly right and I see salespeople get things wrong right from the word. Go not even in the sales presentation when they’re trying to get through to a decision maker to talk to them. They bully their way past the EA or PA or receptionist them, and they expect that that’s going to be acceptable and nobody going to find out about it.

Inevitably, the decision-maker finds out about it and you’ve lost it before you even get, and even to your point I mean some go goes far as like. I really don’t want to get the IT people involved because they could like sabotage my deal. So, let’s see how I can keep them out of this, so just moving on to another thing about honesty and ethics in that in selling. So there’s so much automation has come in now and there’s box and there’s a I there’s a I selling assistance right on linkedin, which is just nuts.

You know I saw that from somebody who a fake linking in profiles, but so as buyers we’re now you know, got so much automation, we’ve got AI come in and we’ve got all of those things. Do you think that that really is an opportunity for salespeople to kind of raise themselves? Above all of that, because we we’re we’re kind of confused? Now we don’t know what’s real anymore, so you’ve got a great opportunity to engage with me at on a human to human level right, yes, I absolutely agree with that.

I think, as salespeople we’ve become, it’s become easier to get lazy because there is so much automation there. We can rely on that and a new lead pops up. It’s a sales qualified lead coming through from the crm or something like that. But the reality is a whole heap of people in there who probably have a need for products and services who aren’t popping up and they’re just getting getting emails.

And we get to say everybody gets the same thing. Lots of what these. What people call spam and they don’t respond to it – the conversation can absolutely cut through. It makes it very apparent, a genuine conversation. It’s a person, it’s not AI somebody. You can believe in and trust, and also it builds a conversation that is personal to that. That specific prospect, and not an email message that was written to be relevant for a couple of thousand people or a hundred thousand, so in reality, as a salesperson, you can use that relationship.

You can use that honesty. You can use that. You know genuine outreach as almost as like as a competitive differentiator today right, yes, I agree. I really do agree. I think that smart sales teams are going to get back in more human to human contact. I’m not saying they should give up all the electronic media at all. Absolutely that’s got a really great place, but it should be a supplement to the human to human solid, because that’s the way that you build trust, really, you can look at websites and people’s LinkedIn profiles, but today there’s always that nagging doubt that I wonder if this Is genuine or not, if you don’t have with a phone call or a face-to-face meeting, now the excellent lamb? Listen Richard we’re bumping up against the end of the time.

So before we go, I wanted to give you a chance to tell people a little bit more about yourself about your organization, how they can learn more about you. Thank you very much, John yeah. I run a company called forest marketing group or fmg in Australia. We’re a specialist business to business sales prospecting company and we go out and we source qualified sales leads through conversations on the telephone.

Business-To-Business we’ve got a sister company in the UK called air marketing group, and so if anybody wants to contact either air marketing group, it’s air marketing, Cote, UK or Forest marketing group is FM group Condor au happy to talk to them. Yeah, that’s great! Listen! It’s been great talking with you, Richard’s been a fascinating conversation. I really do think that honesty, ethics and relationships are going to come and not just back into vogue.

I don’t think they’ve ever gone away, but I think they’re going to become more important as buyers get more confused by the amount of information. That’s been slung at them. Yes, I totally agree John. Thank you very much. Alright, my name is John golden says pop online says magazine, pipeliner CRM, see old for another expert interview really soon. Thank you. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet.

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