This challenge: here’s what you can learn from their mistakes to improve yourselves, do read to the end, because I will be sharing if you some advance sales insights, that you can never get elsewhere. But as you read this article, I also want you to play this test and see whether you can pass it or not. Imagine now you are student in a Stanford class on entrepreneurship, your professor walks into the room and bring you guys into teams and give each team five dollars of funding.
You guys are tasked to compete with each other. Your goal is to make as much as money as possible within two hours and then give three minutes presentation to the class to discuss what you have just achieved. So what will you do? The typical answer goes to using this $ 5 to buy out some startup material for a makeshift carwash or lemon less debt, but the team that follow this typical path, usually are not winners of the game.
In fact, the winners don’t use these five dollars at all. They come to realize that this five dollar is just a distraction and essentially a worthless resource. So they ignore it and go back to the first principle, which is to make as much as money as possible within these two hours. They reframe the problem more broadly and ask themselves what can they actually do if they want to make as much as money as possible, starting from nothing one particularly successful team actually went to make reservations for a super popular restaurant and then serve this reservations slot to People who want to skip the queue these students generated an impressive five hundred dollars in just two hours, but they are still not the winner of the game.
The team that actually make the most money out of this use another different approach. They realized both the five-dollar funding and the two hour. Time are not the most valuable asset of the game. Instead, the most valuable resource is the three minutes presentation that they have in front of a Stanford class, so they actually sold the slot to a company. That is interested in recruiting Stanford students and walk away with six hundred and fifty dollars.
So this five dollar challenge illustrate the difference between tactics and strategy. Although this term are usually used interchangeably in our daily life, but they refer to very different concepts. A strategy is a plan to achieve an overall objective tactics. However, are the action steps that you should take to implement this strategy so for the Stanford students who fixated on this $ 5.00 being blindsided by the tactic and lost sight of strategy, but as soon throw in our wall tactics with our strategy? Our noises before the fit just because the $ 5 bill is sitting in front of you doesn’t mean that you should use it.
However, if you decide to zoom out and look at the whole thing from a broader perspective, you can actually walk away with a much more useful strategy. So what is the $ 5 tactic in your life? How can you ignore and find the two-hour window, or even better, how can find the most valuable three minutes in the opportunity once you remove yourself from what why you will discover other opportunities lurking in a plain sight, so how can apply it to sales, so many Sales people occupy themselves following other people’s tactics.
For example, if you see your competitor giving discount, then you’re also ending up giving discount. If you see others doing one for one promotion, you also follow suit and do one for one promotion. But if you follow these strategies blindly without understanding a strategy behind, you are going to fail. So if you want to learn how you can actually create effective sales strategy, I will actually be sharing a lot more about it inside this exclusive telegin blog.
On top of that, I will be also sharing some advanced sales insights there, which something that you can never find on the internet, because I have accumulated using my years of experience in sales and these sales insights are particularly useful for, ladies because the style that I’m Adopting is more gentle, it’s not pushy, which is more feminine and more ladies, like so. If you also want to become a charming closer remember to join my telegram blog right now, and I will see you inside and of course, if you like this article and find this helpful, please share out with more people so that they can also benefit from this.
And with that, I wish you a charming day ahead, see you
My name is John golden from Sarris pop online says magazine and pipeliner CRM, and today I’m joined by Brian parsley, who is in lovely Charlotte North Carolina. How you doing Brian top of the morning to you, Brian’s Irish as well? Well he’s not he’s South African there / American right at this age, I’m American all the way right: okay, so Brian’s a professional career! So he you started at the bottom.
Worked your way up from temporary staffing agencies, you did door-to-door selling and from that you you experienced and founded successful startups, and now you are consulting you, help organizations with sales, optimization and another sales related and leadership related things. Well, I thought we talked about today. Is okay, we’re at the at the beginning of November? A lot of people have, you know, just under two months, left of selling for this year and desperate, trying to close hit their quota or or hit those accelerators.
So closing is obviously a big issue right now. So Brian, when we were talking beforehand we’re talking about the use of how to use a storytelling, can actually increase your your probability of closing. So do you want to talk a little bit about that sure? I think that, as we go here to the end of the year, there’s a couple things we need to make sure we keep in check number one a lot of times. People see the end of the year as time to start pulling back holidays here in America, Thanksgiving and then creative and even overseas.
You stopped Africa as an example. No, you know December till mid-june where things just shut down, and I think that’s a mistake. If you want to have a strong first quarter, you need to end, and at least 10 the momentum going into that fourth quarter. So that’s one day now just want to throw out there yeah just push harder than you’ve ever pushed ever in your life. This sort of thing when you talk about people are looking too close when you talk about closing in a moment, but storytelling in general isn’t necessarily closed concept.
I would, I know from experience, has been this our goal itself. Professionals is not really the cell. Our goal is twofold: number one to connect. I want to be a connector, I’m going to look for ways and opportunities to say: oh gosh, this guy is an insurance agent. Maybe he needs a realtor, this guy’s a doctor. Maybe he needs an insurance agent. So I’m constantly pivoting my my contacts to make introductions to be what they’re nothing your business together is one thing, but I want to be known as the guy that puts them all together if that makes sense, yeah totally that’s why networking events networking not that tricky People go to there and and and and they tend to hang out with other people like them, but but there are great opportunities to meet folks just by going out there trying to connect with other people.
The second thing is: what’s your biggest goal in sales? Well, you might let chop this down. You ready. John yep goal is to manipulate other people. That’s what you’re supposed to do as a salesperson to manipulate, but there’s a little back into that before you start throwing tomatoes at me. It’s manipulate with good intent right and the best way to describe that is, if you’re, a parent. You manipulate your children with good intent and guide that to the decisions that you believe in know in your heart are the most important things for them to keep them safe, ldiots smart as they grow older.
So keep that in mind here as we go forward. You know, I think, it’ll make a lot more sense when we talk about story time. No, that’s that’s great, because one of the things we used to use in in another role I was in with another company, is one of the rules of communication. Is that you know people believe conclusions they come to by themselves and anything you or I can say to them right so part of your job is to guide them to come to those conclusions and, as you said, if you manipulate a good intent or you guide, Somebody to conclusion with good intent, because you know this is going to help them.
Then that’s that’s a good thing to do a hundred percent in you’re dead on. So let’s talk about storytelling, here’s, the fact the fact is facts are forgot. Facts are forgotten. Stories are retold and when you load down the when you look down the prospect or your customer with facts, figures, values and the features of benefits and all that Mister forget it they don’t. You know why, because they really don’t care the business infomercial czar so powerful to do nothing but tell a story.
Don’t your native of tomorrow with it. I’ve never trusted tomato all the way down the tape, but you start reading it go that could happen yeah. I want that yeah because they’re establishing a pain through a story. You live the story by curiously and they don’t talk about the price. They just tell you the story and then you want it, and I also believe that by telling stories it helps people relate now.
Actually, I take it back before I tell you the story part. I want to share with you an example, and this is a real example that happen for me. How do you connect with people? Well, one way to do – and this is going into your answer to the question about November and event year – closing things you have to make sure that you’re connecting with people and there’s a pre called preparation is a big thing that a lot of people need to Get better at mmm what I call rapport investigation before you go meet with your clients.
You want to connect with them. Part of the storytelling is connecting right, so I want to find ways that we can connect together. So how do you do rapport investigation or internet stalking, as it’s known, we of course, that LinkedIn and Facebook, and things like that, and – and certainly I would never say to you that I’m looking up your Facebook right now and go? Oh, my goodness, he loves, he loves Italian food.
Hey John! I like Italian food. Do you that’s creepy yeah? But if I do see like as an example, I’m a freemason and if I saw on your page that you’re part of a freemason group, you know or a club, then then what we call it objects. But then I would look at it and go. Maybe I’ve thrown out a sign or symbol or something anyway be pretty hard to do. The funny handshake go through virtually yeah [, Laughter, ].
So then, but I’ll give you an example. So I was with the financial advisor and we were going on a call to a lady, and this is something I throw in a road kind of show with these folks and she’s, like one meeting this lady’s the third time she’s not friendly, she sees me. I think out of obligation gee, I can’t seem to close her and I don’t know what it is. I’ve done everything that’s like well, let’s look her up on Facebook and sure enough.
It was locked down. I couldn’t see anything but I said, click the about likes and we moved in their lives and they were all kinds of cool things like. I think it was two wall with this and chill all a rescue wow. That’s weird, and I don’t why she just. I have a twat, I do, and I say do is: take a picture of your Chihuahua put it on your desktop right and when we go before we get started just open it up see the manipulation with good show up sure enough.
She opens it up and lady goes. What is that Chihuahua? She is yes, that’s my chihuahua. Now you wouldn’t want to do this. If you didn’t have a, are you serious best friends, they created this report and they were able to push through and then you shelah WA as the common denominator or the story or the vessel and the nice. And so just going to say – and the nice thing about that Brian is that that has that has taken some of the tension and maybe the wall away.
So now you can have a real conversation. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to sell to them or close them just because you have the Chihuahua but you’ve created the best environment. I will tell you this. I always say that you can act professional, but you got ta talk, Fredman mm-hmm, you know like people, people can see through that. I have a 13 year old and I was just telling me the other day. I said her name’s Alexis unless it out you’d have to be careful the way you come across.
I know your heart. I know your intent, but sometimes you come across as an authentic, hey. How are you – and I know, you’re trying to be polite, but it comes across fake itself. Professionals, I see it every day. Do the same thing, not intentionally it’s not their intent, but it’s what people see you have to remember that. You know you know 52d. I think it’s 54 % of communication is nonverbal or 53 and another 38 % is.
How do you say it yeah? So maybe vast majority of our communication aren’t even the words. That’s why stories are so powerful. No there’s five parts to any story, and this is nice. It’s really easy. Once upon a time there was the hero, the hero went on a journey right and on the journey they met a challenge that could be a dragon. It could be her hair, whatever it is mm-hmm, then the hero somehow someway figured out a way to slay that dragon, and then they lived happily ever after mm-hmm.
What’s fun at I’m a hero. When I was a journey by the challenge you know just solve the challenge, then there’s the five parts to a story everybody’s like that everything’s, very just like that, so we say, and every sale is like that. Well, here’s why once upon the time we had a customer very similar to you, they were looking to achieve this output X Y Z, and this is the challenge that they face. This is what we did for them, and now they don’t happily ever after.
So what you do is you create stories around objections? Your costs too high. You had a bad experience in the past. Only use this other competitor. No, we don’t have a need right now. So let’s say we used you in the past and five years ago and and we have bad experience, you know I totally understand. In fact I have a customer very similar to you. Then we’re looking to you know, build what I don’t know what we’re selling but sure we’re looking to achieve and they had a challenge.
The challenge was: we dropped the ball. The challenge was our company failed them, but then I did a little bit of research and I figured out it wasn’t the company. It was that Account Executive, and this is where they dropped the ball, and this is what we did for them, and not only do they love what we put into play, but now there are a loyal customer because they know that not only am I responsible, but I’m accountable for everything that happens within this organization and then so I’m basically saying that won’t happen to you, but the truth of the story, their inner mind.
You know envisioning this so that they’re going to say, oh well, that makes its automatic proof yeah and you’re. Not and you’re not trying to deny that there were issues in the past right. I mean you’re as you you’re, explaining how you learned from those how you overcome them and how you’ll ensure that they never happen again and when you said about you were just saying about the authenticity: that’s more authentic! Isn’t it then saying like oh well? No, you know, we’ve never had issues like that or that absolutely one it’s much or more, that you just say yeah.
We had those kind of issues and here’s what we did to solve it. I you know get more frustrated when I have a problems for where they want to give me the reasons why I’m wrong, when I’m a customer, yeah and or the excuse, it’s not just apologize and move on and take responsibility, and you know I always love this. I say I’d rather take and I work with companies. You know helping them create more loyal customers.
So when the biggest challenges is they ignore or they try to avoid upset customers. In my my I would postulate imma take a a very upset customer over and okay customer, because I think an upset customer and turn them into someone loyal way quicker than a transactional customers a way to defuse. It is to obviously agree with them. Now I’ve used two different examples, but but they both come down to the to the end.
Where I had a lady just escalated up to me, they said, can you please deal with her? She cuts us and screams and that’s like hey. My name is Brian, and so I’m sort of asked me to give you a call and then she let inter and I’m talking about. I don’t think she took her breath for three minutes straight, just yeah. Every other keywords: okay and – and I didn’t say a word in fact – I didn’t even acknowledge service list mm-hmm or anything just quiet and at the end I was quiet even after she stopped and if she thought I hugged up she’s like Hello, that’s like go.
I’m here and she’s like well, what do you have to say about that? And I said I’m silent because I have nothing to say I said I’m. I can’t believe you’re not more upset than you are now when you say that to someone and it comes across something weird. I said: how dare you agree with me? Yes, I can’t believe you’re not more upset than you are, because if it were me, I wouldn’t even have this phone call.
I would just move on right. The fact that you are taking this phone call shows me that you care you care enough, that you want to make sure that you, let us know, and even though I may not be able to save you as a customer, and never what this to happen to Anyone else, in fact, to tell you that this happened one out of ten thousand times it’s irrelevant, because you’re the one and it’s a hundred percent of you and I get that she’s and and then typically what happens when you do that? Not only do you are you telling this story by, you know relleno wrinkle, but but typically they’ll, then back off and say well, what do you think we should do and and in the goal, obviously is to manipulate your customer and I’ll share with you? This other part of the story assist, have you ever gone to a restaurant or store, and you had such bad service such a bad experience that you swear.
You never go there again, oh yeah too many times, but is it plausible that no one else in that organization subscribes to that same belief that that person created four year, meaning that one-off experience could be that individual then yeah we’re judging the whole cup that one? Incredibly important every other, actually you have with the customer every time good and in fact the once entertainment but still get food.
Let’s answer our phones good afternoon, thanks for the food table, yeah absolutely and it’s it and it’s intro because, as you said there is you know if people are upset. If customer you know, if we’ll take ourselves right, if we’re upset with an experienced, what is the one thing that we really want we want to? We want to be acknowledged and we want to be heard right. That’s what we want and when people fail to do that, it just makes you more angry and then you just go away and you say forget it, but if they acknowledge it and they listen to you, then they there’s a chance of rehabilitation and not just that.
As we know, I let me ask you about that particular particular customer. Did they remain a customer and lay one of your loyal secretary or the crisis control guy so when they have an escalated issue, this is a pretty substantial a lot of times. My clients will call me into but again you know feeling like you’re feeling valued appreciated, appreciation as a currency. That’s accepted around the world and and it’s so easy to give, and yet you don’t really share it very often, because I just as an aside on this, because I had an experience recently where I had to follow this was my owner to follow up on something That I, that I thought was wrong and I was really annoyed about it and I called up and the guy who dealt with it.
Walk me. He was really calm. Very friendly, very empathetic walk me through it and then showed me actually at the end that it actually was my fault. What’s that actually my fault, but the way he did it in the end, I was like, oh my goodness, you’re correct. I’m really! Sorry, it’s actually. My fault and I was, and I had started off pretty angry and I’d. Actually, you know maybe being a little less class and denied to say.
Listen, I’m really sorry for snapping at your beginning. I didn’t understand, and I thought I thought you guys were in the wrong. It was actually me and after that I said, what’s your name, he gave me his name and I went immediately and sent a message to his. Yes, exactly snap, so I mean I sent a message because I was like: oh, my goodness, this guy handled that brilliantly he handled it fantastically yeah, but those are four G between typically whether the right or wrong in by the way.
Let’s say they are right. How do we react to respond to customers, even if I know you’re all grace? Yes, you know I have to say. I totally understand how you feel and I would probably feel the same way. I saw it, but you know quite honestly, let me walk you through the process and then let’s reevaluate, where we are and because I want you to be a customer I really did and and so I think that if you’re dealing with people, here’s the other thing, That’s a self professional if you’re going to start a relationship with a new customer here would be my advice.
You tell them. I want you to know John right up front that I will let you down at some point and you know that’s not my hope. It’s not my desire, but I mean human and by me it should be the business, it could be the deliverables, but I will let you down. The difference is, is that you will have my mobile number. You can call me 24/7 and I’m going to solve your problem and I’m going to take accountability as well as responsibility when something happens, because that’s the difference because everybody tries to be like we’re better than them, we’re all you’re, not that special, yeah and and so Tell me a little bit about how so, as you said earlier, so we’re in the situation towards the end of the year.
People are, you know, they’re getting ready for vacations or they’re in parts of the world. Like you know, it’s Ireland’s, the same as like South African that you know you won’t get anything after mid December right people are just switched off, so if you’re, if you’re selling and it’s Thanksgiving or whatever and people are your prospects are going well, you know, let’s Just pick this up in the new year, you know what are some of the ways you can help to make it more urgent that they address the issue this year and they kind of give you a little space.
Well, ironically, we say it’s one of them that people disengage and November all the way through the end of December, because that means they’re not getting hounded by every other salesperson has given up yeah. I see a better window to actually talk to people because in thir maker chances are they work. You know what I might call CEOs in the morning before 8:00 and then in the evening after 8:00. That’s when I reach out – and I coach as CEO of a publicly-traded company and he’s actually just sent me a text before our called said.
Let’s talk tonight at 8:30 Friday, night 8:30. That’s when I got ta talk to her right and, and you have to get into any salesperson – that tells me oh no, after 5:00 is my time. That’s cool enjoy being broke, because this is a different time. Now it’s connected world and you have to be available. They hate you for that, but that’s the truth and yeah. So it should be your question: how do you do that? Well, number one ask you know and if you’re from overseas awesome so call you until I get a restraining order and I’m going to constantly follow up and one of the things that I recommend even an email or voicemail say John.
I try to reach. You can get you, I know you’re busy. I don’t hear back from you. I assume you want me to follow up next Monday and I can show you. I have a guy for 14 months that I did that with and he finally got back with me and he said first, I want you to know. Thank you. I appreciate your due diligence. Second of all, he said it wasn’t you. It really was me, and this is what was going on I’m ready to to me and that’s important.
I have I’ll give you one more job. I want to show you something here. I wan na be careful, you don’t see his name, but this is a CEO that I’m retained. By that you can see the Blues. I think anyway, right that you, hopefully you can get all the best time he’s texted me back, it is was August 26. Was the last time that he texted me back, but I text him tried to reach out here’s the update. He pays me everybody, it’s my responsibility as a salesperson to and now you to give to follow up, and do it not to say well, it’s busy as the end of the year.
You need to call your clients and set it up. Give them that sense of urgency and do it with great. You can’t go in there and be bossy. You have to be subservient, we are but kissers, that’s what sells people are and if you can’t do it don’t do it don’t do the crime, it’s fun yeah. It’s so funny what you just said: they’re back! If you don’t answer this, I presume you want me to follow up Nick, because I get these all the time where I get like three in a row and the third one is seeing, as you haven’t answered.
My last two emails: this is a lot, I’m not going to bother you anymore and I’m like great thanks, but it’s completely the opposite approach. Right call, other people I was actually in cops. Where were we? We were in Charleston South Carolina two weeks ago. These guys Raley guys – and I I want to say, sick, but it’s like this sales process. I’ve ever seen they have a they. Have this young lady, that’s out on the street with a little club dressed up and she’s in a princess outfit.
You know samples of soap and they were selling like so like handmade so different. The other thing she’s enjoy free samples. So so my daughter’s, like oh I’d, love to have some so she’s. All that’s awesome. She make them in house, that’s what, if she’s not might get greasy on your head, why don’t you come in and we’ll wrap it in Mysore box? You take back to the hotel, so this plan. Even me, I’m like it’s really nice and he’s just really guys tours like hey, I need, or they start showing me like the skin care stuff.
Everything by the way was seven hundred and fifty dollars beautiful. It’s working, obviously a target of princes. Given me a free sample, so looking at Israel for the answer and if you’re willing to push through – and you have that confidence, why do I want to be? I want to meet with you for going to pitch me. You want to any value. You want to connect, call me up, let’s meet yeah and by the way I love because we’re bumping up against the end here, but I love that idea of the fact is that yet, there’s probably all around the world and certainly you’re around the states, as probably Salespeople who are giving up saying, oh I’m, never going to get through to Brian.
At this stage you know Thanksgiving is coming up or whatever, and the one piece of advice is to those motivated people listening or reading is yeah they’re clearing the field for you. If you keep you keep trying to talk to you keep trying to get to Brian because of all these other people who’ve quit. You know, guess what you’ve just got a far better chance of being heard. Yeah before I even responded to there, you go we’re pretty well.
Have you did you check your bank account since we started talking so listen Brian? This has been great. Thank you for the insight before we go. If you want to tell people a little bit more about yourself from what you do, that’ll be great. Well, I’m probably the worst myself, but I will say this Brian parsley, which is my website. You can subscribe and I send out a freaking you every week, usually they’re couple minutes all ideas, best practices, all based around sales and customer service.
Excellent. My name is John golden says. Pop online says magazine, pipeliner CRM Brian. This has been fantastic. Hopefully you come back and we’ll talk again soon, love the conversation and see y’all again soon. Thank you.
Now, I’m going to tell you this on the other end of this screen, I want you to take a good look at yourself. I’m going to talk to you real quick before I get into this about the end game. I want to tell you well, first of all, my name’s Andy Elliot and if you don’t know who I am I’ve been in the car business for over 22 years, I hold the record for most money made in sells selling cars in the states.
I made seven hundred fifteen thousand dollars selling cars and I want to share this with you. In one year I have a severe learning: disability, okay and when I say severe, learning disability like I’ll, just lay it out there, because I’m going to tell you this, I felt, like everybody, had one up on me in life. So, as I talk about testing mediocrity, I want you to think about you where you’re at, and I want to tell you where I come from, and I want to share this with you.
This is something that scared the hell out of me is that I figured man like I’m going to live. My whole life right – and this is me at 18 – I’m going to live my whole life and I’m going to go to heaven and I’m going to never going to heaven and I’m going to be like 225 pounds, I’m going to be out of shape. I lived on normal life and that’s okay. You know I did make a bunch of money, you know mom. I never had a mom in my life.
Five brothers and sisters right dad raised us literally made bad grades in school. You don’t like that was my life and, like I was going to go up to heaven and I cat the end of my life, like I’m good right and I get up there and I look at this chart. I’m sitting there with God God’s got this chart he’s and I like look at it and it says: Eddie, Elliott, 195 pounds lean and I’m like man was that the life I supposed to have was that it a B, Elliott, incredible business man, one of the smartest People in the world and I’m looking at this chart – and that’s that’s not me, but that’s who I was supposed to be, but because I let mediocrity and I let things that I’m not great at get in the way.
I never got that so I’m looking at this chart and when God’s going over with me, who I was supposed to be, you were supposed to help tons of people you you were supposed to marry way up and have an amazing wife. You were supposed to have three incredible children, yours forth and as I’m looking at this chart, I’m like. Oh, my god, man, like my god, like it, was that who I was supposed to be and my life’s over and at that point I decided that I can live as a victim, okay in mediocrity or I can decide to elevate up and decide to get in The Paynes own and suffer I let me tell you what pain is pain, is weakness, leaving the body and, on the other end, I want to share with you.
Nothing good happens in a comfortable environment. Nothing and I don’t care who you are. I don’t care where you’re at I want you to join me if you’ve got issues. I want to share this. I wear a bracelet on my hand every single day. It says if it doesn’t challenge you, it doesn’t change you in anybody and everybody that’s ran into me if you, if you’re struggling or if you’re, hustling and you’re, trying to put together a life for yourself – and I see I’m like man dude, this guy’s got Drive.
Guess what I’ll take my bracelet off my hand, and I give it to him every time I say: hey put this on man. Okay, don’t forget! If it doesn’t challenge you, it doesn’t change you some of you guys on the other end right. We talk about money, a lot of right, like I always talk about closing negotiations. Overcoming objections word tracks how to become a better salesman, but what matters? If you don’t have your mind right, you can’t even accept that good life and make good money.
You’ve got to understand, you can’t play the victim and you need to test mediocrity in your life. Are you trying to be the average? I mean the sorry. The best of the ten average people you’re hanging out with like is that your goal, or you try to be one of the best sales guys in the country. You know, because you have the ability to do it when I was 18 and I didn’t even have enough money to buy lunch, you think I ever thought about making a million a year.
No I’ve done it eight years straight now. Why? Because I know my weaknesses and I battle them on the daily, you know I want to share with you. You need to identify what your weaknesses are and mine was my biggest deal was. I was a bad bad test taker. I had a severe learning disability, so let me just tell you this like if I was going to take a test and I was going to learn something like I literally had to write down like I would take a page in a book and by the way, How I read a book is like this.
If I go read a book, the first book I ever read my life was Tom Hopkins low profile selling or sell like a line act like a lamb in every page I read, I wrote it down on a spiral. Notebook as I read it, the whole book and then when I was done, I like I was like opium yeah. You know. I heard that I remember this boom and I would pull it out of the book, but if I wouldn’t have wrote it down, I have stacks.
I have 500 spiral notebooks just from writing, because it’s the only way that I can beat the way that I learned, but guess what, when I get it, I’m deadly at it. But it’s hard for me to get it, and I want to share this with you. If I can take that learning, disability and I’m willing to go in and hustle and put in the work to learn it whatever it is that you’re struggling against, you can do it okay.
So I’m going to share this with you. If you’re out there and you’re ready to take on the challenge, shoot me a text message: nine one, eight, two, one: zero, zero, two, five, four, it’s real simple, say: Andy, send me the bracelet. I will send to your house a bracelet that says: if it doesn’t challenge you, it doesn’t change you and in 2020. I want you to take me to aakhri and I want you to get it the hell out of your life.
I don’t want you to have it in there anymore, and what I want you to understand is this: is that being the best of the average people around you in going to work being a one-timer like making a great month? One time I mean: don’t live off, that you climb them out and you come back down and go climb another one. That’s what life’s about. I feel like, at the end of your life you’re, going to see your chart okay and don’t sit there and look at that chart at the end of your life when your life’s over and realize that you were supposed to be this incredible person.
God saw it. You didn’t see it alright. So, let’s move on here I’m going to talk about testing mediocrity. What I’m going to do number one! I’m going to tell you how you’re going to feel right going to where we’re going to go together from where you’ve been guys. It feels amazing I want to share this with you. I didn’t have any legs when I started when I felt like when I got into the business of selling, I honestly felt like I had no legs.
I felt like there was these guys that had this amazing platform, they were good speakers. They were good at talking. They were better looking, they had nicer clothes, you know I’m saying they had relationships with people that had business experience. Maybe their father was in the car business. You know I’m saying like they always had all these like advantages on me, but you know what I grew some legs.
I didn’t need them. I don’t want anything handed to me so, if you’re on the other end, looking for the easy way out, there isn’t one the easy way is being dead, broke and living in jail. Your whole life when, right now you have the ability to make more money than you’ve ever made in your life. Guys, I’m standing here, I’m the text message away: you’re staring at your phone, nine one, eight two, one: zero, zero! Two five four Andy send me the bracelet, but doesn’t challenge you doesn’t change you by the way.
Can you help me shoot yeah I’ll help you, man, dude? I don’t care about your money. I don’t care about anything. You know what I care about. Is you living your best life and pulling you out of your comfort zone? Nothing good happens, being comfortable everything you want in life, everything and ten times. More is right on the other side of you being uncomfortable, live in that zone, all right use negative stuff.
The BS that used to make you weak use it as power now to fuel you, everybody said I wouldn’t make it everybody. Everybody said I wouldn’t make it. I want to tell you, you know how bad and I didn’t give a crap about what they said. It used to kind of eat me up a little bit when I was younger. Now it’s fuel. It’s like gasoline somebody’s, like hey man, you can’t do that yeah. Everybody says it can’t happen until it does right and I’m going to tell you this.
My fate thing to say is somebody to say: hey that can’t happen. I’ve got a salesman and I’ve got many, but I’ve got one specifically that come from nothing literally, nothing but goodwill clothes to get in the car business man. No parents physically abused as a kid right, dads murdered mom doesn’t give a about him family’s gone dude, no one abandon all alone the runt. The underdog I’ve been training him now for six months he was fired from the first two car dealerships within the first two weeks were of where he worked great guy great great guy killed her heart.
Give you the shirt off. His back has nothing, though, and because he’s so pre judged by everybody. Everybody just gives up on him, but leaders can find a way to take a man or woman and see in them that they carry something. Everybody has something special in them. Everybody’s got a unique trait that they could kill it at in the business. You just got to understand you and you got to quit thinking about what other people think about you and you got to know where your edges and what you’re good at my edges, I’m going to outwork the chart.
Remember I told you been in my life. I feel, like God’s going to give me a chart of who I was supposed to be I’m going to outwork that chart okay, I want him to say J, dandy, dang and it’s not about money. It’s about how many people I helped. Okay, I told you I want to make the best salesmen in the frickin country all across the globe in the world. I want to be a part of every salesmen success, and all I want them to do is get what they deserve in life.
You don’t get what you deserve, you get, what you negotiate your negotiate with your head yourself. Am I going to lay on this side of complacency and mediocrity, or am I going to get on this side? Am I going to see how deep the rabbit-hole is? Am I going to get myself and take myself to a level that I’ve never been to and by the way it’s going to be uncomfortable? Okay, because number one right now, you fear stuff.
Okay, you got learn, there’s nothing to fear number, two you’re afraid of stuff. Quit being afraid. I don’t know what you’re afraid of. I see people that reach out to me right and they’re. Like man, you know just when this happens, I’m really going to start pushing. What do you mean? Do it right now when you’re mess right now in your mess, make that your message come out? Strong man write your testimony write your book right as we go.
You don’t need nothing, you know what you need is you. You need to be your own biggest fan and I’ll share this with you. You take what everyone says about you negative and you use it as fuel. You never never take that stuff and back down and fill, maybe like less significant because of what someone else has people that hate on people or people that have already given up on their own dreams right. So they want you to give up on yours or they’re.
Pursuing their dream – and they see you as a threat – I didn’t realize it, but in 19, when I was hustling and everybody hated me, that’s what I was a threat to them, but I’m going to share this with you. I’ve worked hard in the midst of nothing. I made 150000 that year look at 19. You could do the same thing. I don’t care how old you are. You could be 65 and decide today’s the day you draw the line in the sand.
You could be a teen age, doesn’t matter, I’m 40 years old. I feel 18 all right struggling the darkness. Maybe what you need. I needed that dark place for a minute. Okay, I believe in God – and I want to be in the light, but man I was in a dark place. You know I felt like I was the only one that honestly believed in me just about this much and no one else did, but I felt like man I’m going to do this and once I decided that I made that choice, it was over and I made That choice in a dark place and when you make that choice when you’re struggling and you do whatever it takes to make it no matter, what do you know what happens? You freaking kill it all right, so check this out, I’m going to talk about relooking at your situation and I’m going to talk about the way that you used to stuff.
You see it differently now, it’s it’s not changing your lenses! Okay. So if you take a pair of glasses right and you change the lens out on them, you know what happens prospectively, you start seeing things different. That’s what you need to do. You need to see yourself differently. You’re need to see your life differently: okay, you’re, valuable and you’re worth it, and guess what we’re going to get into the grind.
But you have to accept what your issues are and what your problems are before you can fix it. If you don’t accept it, if you’re pushing blame off on someone else, you’re never going to kill it. Look. I want to share this with you. So there’s a book that I read, it was called extreme ownership. It’s a Navy SEAL book, okay and it talks about. Basically, taking ownership for everything, everything is your fault and I took everything in my life and I didn’t play the victim anymore.
I took responsibility for it all right in my mess and I took that and I was walking around. I was like hey, I’m good, I’m good. You know like I wouldn’t good, though, and some of you guys if I have to meet you right now, I’m like hey, what’s up man, how you doing you’re like good man, I’m good, I’m good, you’re, not good! You know what the deal is: you’re, not good. You need to call out what your problems are and you need to fix them.
So we can take your life and elevate it to where you’re supposed to be and take that freaking chart right and make sure that you’re going to get who you’re supposed to be not who you’re settling for. So you got to figure out who you are accepted and a lot of people walk around like I’m good, but guess what people don’t want you to do that they don’t want you to fix it. People don’t want you to change, so you got to audit your circle and get everybody out from around you that doesn’t have the same vision as you, because you can’t do it working around haters or living around haters around you, especially if you’re looking to them for Advice, look if I want to change my life and I look.
I’m dead broke right now. I have not a dollar to my name and I decide I want to get out make $ 100,000 this year. If I walk up to another salesman, be like hey man, you don’t want to. I want to change my life man like I really want to change my life like. I want to make a hundred thousand dollars a year over this. You know what he’s going to say to me: man, man, dude, just try to make 50 grand. You know, I’m saying like that’s what I would do and this business is not what it used to be man.
What are you talking about this business right now? I got kids that are 20 years old, making twenty five thousand a month. They’re texting me non-stop, their pay stubs, showing me where they come from because we’re training together. I got guys 60 years old, sending me messages saying Andy. Nobody would hire me, but now that we’ve done this training together, I literally have taken myself as a mature adult at 60, which someone wants a higher six-year-old and guess what they gave me a job paying me a ten thousand dollar salary because I’m handling their marketing Team in this side now because of the stuff that you taught me listen, everybody could have went to the grave right with like all this still in them, but they decided to play it and that’s my fear, go to a nursing home.
You go to a nursing home, you know what you’re going to find out you’re going to find out. All the old people have to talk about is regret. Nobody talks about how great of a life they have. Oh, my god, listen how you doing going to a nursing home. Oh my god. It was amazing. Like my life, god I just there’s so much. I want to tell you that I did and it was amazing. No no go! You know what they say.
They talk about regret. The regret that I would have is not playing all my music before I die. Okay, that’s my regret. My regret would be that, on the other end that you’re you’re, not even brave enough to send me a text message and just say: hey help me dude, let’s figure it out, I’m telling you I. I am vouching to help any and every person out there with any struggle that wants to kill in a business and my therapist no ways.
I don’t need to know that logistical problems. What I need to tell you that I got your back if no one else has your back. If everyone else says like hey, you know this guy’s, a loser. Don’t do that you need to do this. Listen if you know what you want to do and you want to kill it team up with me, nine one, eight two, one: zero zero. Two five four text me right now, I’m going to talk about this starting the journey.
Most people won’t even start the journey. They talk about the journey lots of talk right, yeah man, 2020 a new decade. This is what I’m going to do. You guys talk about everything you have no action start the journey with me start it man in your mess right now: okay, quit living the fake life that you’re living and quit caring about these people that are judging. You write them off. Okay, because look at this, I’m going to tell you this when you care more about how someone’s judging you, then you wanting to change you’re going to stay in the same spot, you’re at right now and nothing’s going to happen and you’re not going to shift some Of you we’re going to look up in three months and you’re going to be a different person.
Hell you’d be so different. We have to change your name, you won’t even be the same person. Okay, look there’s Andy Elliot right, there’s me and then there’s the way that I see myself when I’m in the zone, I’m not Andy Elliot, I’m a different person. Okay, because Andy Elliot was supposed to be a 225-pound dude that likes to eat like candy and stuff. All the time right I like to read TV, I like to be lazy.
I like to kick back. You know I’m saying I don’t like to go to the gym and grind it and sweat until I want to throw up and get knowledge. I don’t want to do that stuff, but you know what I don’t want to be that person. I don’t want that. Mommy voice in the back of my head said: hey everything’s, okay, no, it isn’t. Okay. What it is is that it’s time for me to get to work – and you guys want to outwork that chart that you’re supposed to live, you guys want to really have your full potential.
Give your kids, what you’re supposed to give have your future family or your family right now get everything that they deserve. Maybe anything and everything you want in life is literally just the choice of you deciding that you don’t care anyone else thinks anymore and guess what team up with somebody that believes in you and I don’t care who you are on the other end, I don’t care What you’ve been through, I believe in you, 100 % all right.
The third thing, what it’s wrong with you has to be a focal point. Okay, so what I did, I thought told you. I had a severe learning disability and what I did is that literally I went to the store, I bought a stack and a spiral notebook and I took – and I started writing and writing and writing and writing and writing so I have word tracks that I use All the time and do you know what those word tracks were only learned by writing it down 25 times now, guess what I’m done? It’s in me for the rest of my life.
That’s the way that I learn, but because it takes me so long to learn something. Do you think I’ll? Let that stop me no and for people that want to say man that guy’s not smart. Listen, I’m going to tell you this you’re right. I wasn’t born smart, but I’ve gotten really smart, because I study non-stop and guess what, when you talk about family and you guys live in four different goals and stuff, guess what a lot of people they just have financial goals.
They don’t have marriage goals or father goals. I’m going to tell you. This live in the fulfilled life has nothing to do with money, but I think people underestimate the amount of money that it takes to live. So that’s why we have to get our crap together and start getting that money, so we’re not working 15 years from now still trying to make it. My goal is next year you guys team up with me. Recession hits in the next year or two: you kill it and make more money than you’ve ever made in your life, while everyone else is crying and screaming like little babies – okay, we’ll capitalize on it.
So I want to get to this last part strategize on one problem at a time. Okay, this is how you become unbelievable one problem at a time, just one pick it reach out to me so, hey Andy. I got three things. That’s the big issue right now: number one! I’m lazy just call it out, I’m lazy and I’m not saying that you but number two listen man. I play the victim right. You know I’m saying, like my wife divorced me, my kids don’t want to see me and maybe that’s you or maybe I’m 18 years old.
You know I’m 19, I’m 20. I want to get in cells. My parents say I’m stupid for getting in cells. They don’t want me in it. I don’t want to go to college, listen dude! I got you, I got you, it doesn’t matter, I’m a mom. I’ve been staying at home for the years with the kids I’m getting in the business guys. Women are killing it in this business. Whatever it is, I don’t care, let’s focus on one problem and let’s smash it out and then let’s move on and then before too long.
When you look up all your problems are handled, you’re a whole different person, you’re getting the life that you deserve right because you’ve put the hustle in right. You have to be willing to suffer for this new life you’re going to suffer being comfortable. Why not suffer in the pain zone and get what you want? It’s addicting it’s fun now with that being said before you know it all. Your problems are fixed and look stop trying to be the best of the average people around you and, lastly, don’t be a one-timer.
Let me explain what a one-timer is. A one-timer is somebody that does something one time and that’s their identity that they carry with them. For the rest of their life, one time you made one good month, you paid $ 20,000 I’ll, walk up to the salesman. I’m like hey! What’s going on man, hey how’s your month, I’m pretty good, hey! So roughly what? What kind of money are you earning? You know not about 20,000, no, no, no! No! Your year-to-date is seventy-five thousand.
You made a $ 20,000 a month and you’re owning that in your head. Why don’t you tell yourself you’re worth 20,000 a month right, but you work like a $ 6,000 hand. That’s why that’s what you’re consistently really making look at me? I want to tell you this. I can take you if your goal right now is to make twenty thousand a month. I can take you to have a goal of making twenty thousand a week and hitting it but you’re the one that has to put the work in just like.
I do just like I’ve done and just like I’m going to continue to do. But if you want to take this journey I’ll, take it with you guys, send me a text. Nine one, eight two, one: zero, zero, two, five! Four, let’s test mediocrity text me. Let me get you this bracelet. If it doesn’t challenge you, it doesn’t change you and, let’s not be afraid of anything, have a great day.
My name is John golden from sails pop online says magazine, I’m pipeliner CRM and today I’m joined by Patrick wen Hua’s, a who is the author of the upcoming book, the persuasion code and your marketing can help you persuade anyone anywhere anytime. So welcome Patrick hey good afternoon John, so Patrick, you have been talking about neural marketing and you have you know you ordered another book before and you’ve been in this in this area.
You know for a long long time, so tell me a little bit about what is what is different about your book. That’s coming out in September, the the persuasion code. So what happened is about 17 years ago there was a new branch of marketing that was born called neural marketing, and here is the promise of newer marketing. The promise is that traditional marketing does not really work. Why? Because in traditional marketing, here is what we do.
We ask people: what do you want and then based on their answers? We won’t build a product and later we will create a strategy to sell that part, but the reality is that people don’t really know what they want. As a result, traditional marketing is very often detailing, and the promise of newer marketing was very different. The promise of newer marketing is that we would ask people what do you want, but we will not trust their self-reported answers.
Instead, we could measure directly on their bodies, values, physiological changes that indicate what people truly want so 17 years ago, the world was on fire when people started to use this, because the promise was just too good to be true, and so, if you fast forward 17 Years later, neural marketing has exploded in order today there are over a hundred companies in the world that offered various kinds of services around the home marketing, but it has not really delivered on its initial promise and it has not initially delivered why? Because there is not a single unifying model that explains what you find when you do these physiological measurements.
No word anybody can do various kinds of physiological measurements and by the way, those techniques go from very simple, very inexpensive ones. Where you can measure, for example, the eg on the head of people or you can in measure their emotion based on how to contract the 43 muscles on their faces, or you can measure how their skin changes react resistance. So all these measurements are very easy to do, but what’s really hard is how do you interpret them in a complete? You know sales and marketing approach.
In other words, how should an advertiser change its sales and marketing strategies based on those measurements? So, unfortunately, the initial promise of no marketing has not really delivered. So when we wrote our first book, we suggested that there might be a model that helps you guide everything you do not read them to make it really effective, but we had not tied all that model to all these measurements.
So, what’s continued in our new book is that we are now explaining how it really works, in other words, it’s a little bit like if you are talking about physics. As you know, in physics we are trying to unify the two basic physics model: the traditional physics, bye, doc, bye I’ll help me with his name. It was a British guys, future new Neutron, you use it and the quantum physics. So there is not a single unifying model yet, but we’re getting closer and closer well, there is no single unifying model of sales of marketing and our model, we believe, is their very first one.
That just does that. You know it’s a complete model that explains how people use their brain to make buying decisions and based on that, it helps any entrepreneur. Anybody who has to convince other people about what they need to do if they want to be more successful in sales and marketing. Right so so explain to the people, their listeners, who may not have come across this before or not really pay too much attention.
But why is it that you can’t trust what people initially say they want, or why is it that that neuroscience plays such a big role in really understanding what you know how people make decisions as opposed to what they say sure well think about it. If I ask you, imagine you walk in the restaurant and instead of offering you a menu, I ask you: what do you want to eat tonight? You see how embarrassing how difficult it is to figure out what you really want mm-hmm, whereas if you see that many of you, oh yeah, the chicken looks really good on the menu today.
So when people have to self-report what they really want or what they really like, they are going through the funnel of expressing with words what they want, and that does not allow them to really access the unconscious. As you know, in the mind, if you think about it, there is really a conscious part, which is only five to ten percent of who we are. And then there is this big iceberg underneath it, which is 90 percent of we are, and we really have access to that unconscious and asking people to access that unconscious.
By using words, you know, self-reported words is mission impossible. So the reality is people who really know what they want. However, our body does so, for example, when you get scared, you know you get the first signs of fear even before you’re aware that you’re scared, and today there are a number of tools that we can use to make those measurements. So, in essence, those measurements are allowing us to poke into the unconscious of people, and the techniques are very reliable in the past they used to be very complicated.
In other words, you needed a supercomputer, you needed 10 PhDs to run it and a big budget. Today, all these techniques admitted you know very affordable. In fact, some of these techniques are even accessible for free on the web. So how would you if you take this over the sales for a moment right, so you know sales people have to ask a lot of questions and do discovery and really try and uncover what somebody what a prospect is looking for.
So how does it play into that because, like you said I mean, maybe this is a difficult process for the actual customer. Yes, so in the case of myself, it way now is, if you take that idea and put it in the context of a one-on-one meeting between the buyer and a seller, I mean that what the very first task are the seller is really to understand what are Some of the negative thoughts that are going into the mind of the buyer, I mean in our book.
We call that the pain mm-hmm, but the unconscious pain we believe, are more important than the conscious pains and I’m going to give you an example right now. Imagine the seller is selling home, delivered pizza and the buyer is the average consumer of pizza mm-hmm, most people when you ask them. So what do you work when it comes to a pizza? You know people can talk about, they will tell you. I want extra pepperoni and I want cheese etc, but in reality there is a small company in the u.
S. That figured this out. But four years ago they figured out that not one pain of people buy home. Deliver pizza. I know almost like the unconscious pain. Is the anxiety of not knowing when the pizza will arrive right and again, it would be almost. It would be impossible for most people toward that, but we can measure it on a bun and figuring this out that no pizza shop came up with a slogan and never struggle.
It was 30 minutes or less for extreme mm-hm, and that little place is now known. As Domino’s Pizza – and they became number one now W speaking number one, not because they make the best pizza but because they were able to diagnose that pain and then they build a complete organization whose unique purpose is to eliminate that. So this is the case of Domino’s, going back to our case of a single one on one person selling the job of the sales guy is to read between the line of the answers that the person will that the person will given, but so, if I am That person trying to sell you, Domino’s Pizza, I’m going to ask you questions about, so you know you’re going to be home alone tonight.
What are some of the thoughts that go through your brain etc? And I’m going to try to force you to admit that you have this unconscious pain, but, as you can imagine, it’s a very difficult job. In other words, it’s a job which is more the job of a psychologist than it is the job of a salesperson, and that’s why salespeople typically, are not very good at doing this, because we train ourselves people to be good talkers.
Unfortunately, most of them are not good listeners and to throw a good diagnostic of that pain to find between the line where the consumer really wants. It takes somebody who has the capacity to listen very deeply, and it takes the capacity of people can ask the right questions and and a prospect or a customer. It’s one of the value drivers will reward you for uncovering something. You know a problem or a pain that they either didn’t know they had or did not weren’t aware that it was that acute right.
So that’s really where you logged in yeah, when you do that diagnostic of the pain properly there are two major benefit. The first benefit is it’s a soft way of selling. You know where you don’t have to say: well, we have the best product, I’m the best sales guy, no you’re, demonstrating your expertise, not by what you say, but by what you ask for by the quality of the questioning that you drive. So that’s the first thing.
The second thing is asking question: is the best way to develop rapport right, if you think about it, the people that are interesting, a lot of people that talk about himself. There are the people that talk to you about you. So, what’s the best way for me to talk to you about you, if you ask you question and so and so getting back, pivoting back a little to the neuro marketing piece. So when you look at at most companies marketing today say software products or whatever.
What do you see is the big problem with the kind of traditional marketing and how could people flip that using newer marketing? Well, the problem is that marketing well done typically is very expensive. I mean you need to do big surveys. You need to question a lot of people, so I think a lot of people think of marketing as an expensive task, but when I think about it, for us, Noora marketing is really what can help people differentiate between the what people think they want and what people Really want inside the unconscious and for a large company.
This is invaluable. You know I’ll give you just one example: we’re working for Avon, for example, and you know trying some of our techniques they’ve been able to see sales increase by up to 40 % for some of the shampoo products, because a lot of the ads that they were Doing were too focused on the product itself, etc, but it was not really addressing some of the core pains or negative emotion that resides in the brain of our consumers right.
So that is really the promise of no marketing it’s to help. People do focus everything. They talked about which typically centered on the mimimi, I mean most people, if you think about it most people when they talk about the products and services they talk about who they are and what they do, mm-hmm. In fact, if you look at all websites, most websites include a tab which is called who we are and another tab, which is called what we do, but the critical information that is missing there is: why should the customer buy right, and what we have seen is That noir marketing is the fastest surest way to get companies to quickly focus and now down on why the customer should buy.
So what are some other examples that you’ve seen of where somebody has done this? Well, where they’ve changed their marketing approach and and really hit the you know, hit the target. You know there are no many examples, but if you’re talking about Apple, for example, right the computer and phone company Steve Jobs by the way used to say we don’t do marketing at Apple, because the consumer doesn’t know – and I know better than them what they want.
So we’re going to build it if you’re, not in fact not completely wrong, we’re going to sell a lot of it, but Apple has been the champion of this now think about it. I’d like to take you back about 30 years ago. Why would people want to buy an Apple computer thirty years ago? There was only one reason think about 30 years ago. Yes, the reason is slightly different today. That’s why I’m bringing you back a few years back? Why would people buy a Macintosh when the main computer? Well, the main competitor at the time was the regular PC at the time they it was very specialized.
I mean there were people, maybe actually yes, designers and people like that who bought Max’s right and a few students. You know what was the main reason. Why? Because it was easier to use, you know what, if you were buying your PC, he didn’t have a degree in computer science. It would be very hard for you to use it right, so Macintosh make it easier for people so Apple use. That claim, in other words, the reason why you would want to buy your Apple computer years and years ago, was easier to use and slowly over time as computers became easier to use Apple to endorse another crime, and why would people buy an iPhone today? There’s still only one reason, but it’s slightly different.
It’s no one here to use because every four years is to use – and you know what it is: it’s cool to use cool yeah. So this again so Apple decided once and for all in the 35 year history. They went from a t1 claim, is it to use and they slowly switch to cool to use over a period of time, but they did that because they know that had been one crime. You know being able to write the book. Why buy enough? On the only one chapter mm-hm and hammering that chapter you know cause when Apple’s 20 years ago was selling a mirror.
It was always you know easy to use by creating that repetition by making it clear as to what is that one chapter in the book title? Why buy an Apple Apple has been extremely extremely successful, so Apple was using some of the concept that we are now explaining from a purely scientific standpoint for for many many years right so, but so basically BAM based on that, then, are you saying that most companies Should really look at uncovering that that one or two reasons, real reasons why a customers should buy from them absolute and it an it, and as you say, it’s not the obvious one in terms of it may not be they the product itself.
It may be something you know totally tangental even to it right absolutely I mean, if you think about it, easy to use and a Macintosh computer. It has nothing to do fast. Delivery has nothing to do with the pizza itself. In other words, unfortunately, if you’re selling your commodity, you will not be able to find what makes you unique in the product itself, because, by definition it’s a commodity, so you’ve got to find that one reason why people want to buy it and it’s going to be Outside of the product, functions and features itself, and all the companies that are successful have destroyed it for a long long time.
That’s excellent advice so before we finish up today, give me a little bit more information about when your book is available about your company about yourself and how people can learn more about you right. So our first book is the valuable you know it was written about. Fifteen years ago, so it’s still available. Our new book titled, the persuasion code, will be available in mid September, is published by ye, and the information is already available on amazon.
Com and what we are is we are the only advertising agency in the world that uses no marketing techniques to diagnose the pain of The customer and ours fine, the true motivation that drives people to buy. Then we are a strategic, consulting firm. We guide the choice of companies on what is that one chapter in your book and we train people on all these concepts and the last thing we do is we have a small, creative arm.
Then, once we have agreed on all this concept, they actually rhyme. So the concepts are, what are the pains in the brain of your customers, and how do you diagnose that then? The second concept is: how do you differentiate your claims numbers? How do you make your solution appear completely unique in the eyes of your customers, even if you’re selling commodity, we call that the claims? The third concept is, how do you demonstrate the game? No, it’s not enough to say I have the best product.
How do you actually prove it and how the volume so pain claim and gain, and the last step is: how do you deliver to the primal brain? In other words, how do you deliver your message to the unconscious of the consumer? Okay, so we packages we package, our services, so that small companies and not company alike, can see benefit in applying a model that is again completely anchored in the science of the human right.
Yeah, it’s fascinating stuff and I’ve had the pleasure of seeing Patrick speak before so I would highly recommend that you, you check out the sales brain and check out Patrick and check out his book and I think you’ll find it extremely fascinating. So listen thanks again, Patrick for joining us. Today. We look forward to to your book and to seen the model in you know its glory coming out in September and then learning more about this fascinating subject.
So thank you for joining us today. My name is John Gould and sales pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM will see all for another expert inside interview really soon. Thank you, John. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our You, Tube blog and then comment get involved in the conversation, love to hear what you have to say.
My name is John golden from says pop online says magazine and pipeliner CRM, and today I’m joined again by Patrick Renoir, say how you doing Patrick very good. Thank you. How are you excellent and Patrick’s new book has just come out – hit hit the bookshelves Amazon everywhere the persuasion code? How neuromarketing can help you persuade anyone anytime anywhere anywhere anytime and Patrick yeah? You wrote your first book 16 years ago and, as we were saying just before we came on air you’ve been kind of writing.
You and your cohorts been kind of writing this book now follow-up book for 16 years, so how’s it taking so long. Well, it’s taking so long because the very first book I wrote was actually the first book on neuromarketing, so we almost people didn’t even know what new marketing was. We did not invent the word we adopted it. You know the first time we heard it because we felt it was the best explanation of what we were doing but Justin.
You know the amount of things that have come out, that being you in the last 15 years may be overwhelming, and we felt we had to write really a second book. So what are some of the major things that have evolved or changed, or that you’ve discovered in the interim that really made this new book compelling? Well the number of things. But the first thing is when no marketing first started to appear.
The promise was just almost too good to be true, in other words, people have known for a long time that marketing does not really work, because marketing is about asking people. What do you want and then you base your product development and your sales and marketing strategy and what people have self-reported so because we know people don’t know what they want. You know billions of dollars are wasted on failing marketing campaigns every year, so the promise of normal marketing was that by measuring directly on the body of people, values physiological changes that would we would get a really good indication about what they really want and, as a Result, you know everybody would save money, all marketing campaigns would be way more, effective, etc, but it has not really been delivering opens Provence, and one of the reason is that it’s very easy to get update.
I know what you can put electrodes on the head of people can ask them question: you can make these physiological measurements, but how do you interpret those and how do you actually deliver marketing insights that generate results? This is more complicated than what people originally thought and in Tooker’s, or you know about fifteen years, to realize that without an interpretation model, people do not really see the benefits of no marketing and that’s the subject of our second book.
We say yes, no marketing is great. We can measure all these things, but do not expect to get miracle results, especially if you’re not using a predictive model, and you know our second book addresses this issue, and it also gives a complete scientific picture of the model that we first published sixteen years ago. So so now we go an emotional level of detail about justifying, for example, yeah I’ll.
Just give you one example upon me that you’re, why do stories work when you’re in sales? Why do beach bar pictures more effective than text? So we simple yet scientific explanation about all the things that a lot of people were doing intuitively in the past, but they didn’t know where they were working mm-hmm. So let’s talk a little bit about that. Maybe I’d learn it a little bit more about the the model and and how you can actually start to measure and interpret these things.
Sure so, first of all, model is based on the work of Daniel Kahneman was the winner of the economy, Nobel Prize in 2002. More recently, in 2017, one of his students, guy by the name of Richard Taylor, also won the economy Nobel Prize, and you went further in this. So we’ve based our model on the work of these people and here is the fundamental discoveries that they’ve made, which is that we have two personalities if you want in other word, you know where everybody has multiple personality disorder and there is the rational us, and there Is the primal us Kahneman called it system, one for the primal us unconscious brains, the brain that helps you? You know deal with digestion, breathing a low-level body function and then, on top of that, you have a much more evolved brain called the brain and he called that system too.
And although we think that we make decision using our smart brain in reality, the impact of our primal brain on the rational brain is greater than the impact of the rational brain on the karmic way. So what we have done is we have studied in you know, for about 20 years now the working principles of that primal brain and because that primal brain by definition is ancient. You know we share that brain with very primitive forms of lives like reptiles, because that brain is so ancient and internet did not exist back then that brain can only be triggered by one of six stimuli.
So we teach people how this human eye works and our expertise is in translating those sixteen I into what people should do in sales marking and further than the stimuli. We have translated those stimuli into four steps that everybody should master, go ahead. No, I’m just going to ask you so so what you? What you’re saying is so, as you said, I mean we believe, because we all believe that we’re very highly sophisticated people that you know all the decisions we made.
You know we rationalize them and all of that kind of stuff, but what you’re saying is: there’s a it’s a lot more primal. How we do it may be our physiologically reactive things. I mean that actually is a much bigger driver of our decision-making process. Is that right, yeah, that’s correct! In fact, Antonio Damasio was when one of the world expert on the role of emotion of the brandy said we are not thinking machines that feel we are feeling machines that think so all of the emotions you know they win over.
All the rational aspect of our decision-making and even further than the emotion the issue of survival is key to all the decisions we make. The only thing is we’re not even aware of it but you’ll take prize. For example, I mean everybody right now, he’s happy to pay five dollars and get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. That mean stuff is pretty naira. However, if Starbuck was going to put the price of coffee at twenty dollars, people would start to hesitate to buy a coffee there.
Why? Because they know that he’s they spend too much money on their cup of coffee. They might not have enough money to pay the rent which down the road is the modern version of survival. So again, all these have all these phenomenons happen at the level of our unconscious, but they have biological manifestation, which are undeniable. You know if you look at even the most primitive forms of life. Primitive forms of life respond with the fight or flight syndrome, or the approach or with drugs in the first form of life is a unicellular.
And if you take a unicellular here and you put a drop of sugar close to it, that unicellular will be drawn to the sugar, because it’s a source of energy, so that unicellular will do everything he can to move closer to that stimulus of the sugar. Now take the same unicellular and drop a drop of acid close to it or you know them juice and that mini cylinder will move the way. Well, we even being still operate the same way.
You know, if you put in front of my nose a very desirable item, like the you know, the latest iPhone or the latest Nexus subscription or whatever my natural tendency will be. I will be drawn towards it and, of course it’s the job of Apple. If I buy the iPhone to create that positive emotion that draws me towards it, but those two meters that are created by companies that are trying to sell you something fundamentally, they operate at the same level as the phenomenon that happens in the unicellular.
It’s all about the biology of the equation yeah, it’s very interesting because I was just thinking cuz when I was having this conversation with some of the other day, and it always fascinates me one of the biggest purchases people make in their lives is a home right And yet think of the buying process for most people you go around, you look at a few houses and then you decide one because you get a feeling from it and you maybe only spend like 20 minutes in the place and next minute, you’re already you’re putting In bids and everything and – and you spend more time, as you say, probably deciding, will I get the iPhone S or X or whatever? Then you you something very interesting, you said you have the feeling that some things happen, but for most people guess what they don’t.
Even experience that feeling in others that feeling stays below the level of consciousness and at the end of the day, they might decide that they, like this house, because that house, at the exact same smell that the cookies that the grandmother cooked years ago mm-hmm, which is Why it’s a good tip for people is to always bake cookies before people come to look at your house, it’s a guess and they make sure the house is warm and they make sure you know that the light is on.
They make sure that the house is staged, so yeah absolutely right to show us what happens in Damacio said that he said we make emotional decisions and then we rationalize nice, but not vice versa. And again, I know you would take me a little longer than discussion, but we have all the scientific proof that this is undeniable. So what is it that most day, what would you be your advice? Obviously, you know get the book and read it, but what would be your advice to people who are looking at their marketing today? How can they tell whether they are movie, whether they are able to do what you’re describing here or whether they’re completely missing the mark and well yeah? I could give you tons of examples, but so this, the 16i, are very precise.
In our presentation I mean one of the stimuli is the concept of visual again. This is nothing new, because we all know that picture is worth a thousand words, but the you know the brain is mostly visual. People say that about 80 % of all brain activity is about processing images. By the way, if you look at the opposite of visual in terms of conceptual data, it would be text right. No, if I want to tell you about the concept of a cat, I can either show you a cat, or I can tell you the word cat.
The third way to communicate the concept of cat would be to hand you a cat, so people learn in three ways: it’s called visual auditory kinesthetic. We have three blogs for learning now most companies today when they communicate the value prop. They do it using words when you wrote our website and you see a long explanation about what they do. Well, unfortunately, that primal brain is mostly visual.
So what that mean? I’m not suggesting that you need to visual the product, but you need to come up with a visual that becomes a symbolic representation of the value proposition. So, for example, if I sell a really very complicated software solution to you know a large industrial organization and one part of my value proposition is it will save you money, then the concept of saving money? How can I represent that, so I may use a picture of a safe.
I may use a picture of a banknote, but that’s what I mean by this. You know being able to go the next step. I could say it saves you money, I’m using text. There is no emotion in it or I can actually show you a picture of a banknote. Give you another example. If the core of your value proposition is easy. Well, I can talk about easy all day long or I can show you a picture of the easy button from Staples or if your value drop is one-stop shopping.
I could use those. We saw me nice because the Swiss Army knife, you know, becomes the symbol of the screwdriver, the core corner and the plate. So going one step beyond the simple value pub that uses normally word using a visual escape. So that’s that’s one thing. Another concept would be you know today. Most people talk about the fact that they are a leading provider. Are the problem? Is all your competitors are saying the same thing so that does not trigger that primal brain? Because one of the similarities contrast, you know, the primal brain is any contrast to see that all the other guys do this, but you only only one will do that.
Now, of course, it’s easy to say, but if you have a commodity, how do you create that uniqueness and we didn’t run to people that they have to scratch their head? They have to find that uniqueness at all cost, to increase the amount of contrast so that your customers see all the other solution as the green apple and then suddenly, you become only write up and that only red apple is what triggers the decision of people yeah.
It’s it’s interesting because, as you say, I mean the you know, the perception at least in most buyers of the most products and services are highly commoditized today right and that they’re easily. So you can easily walk from one to the other and there’s no big big deal. So I see where you’re, today, more than ever, that concept of finding something that stands out for you is absolutely critical and what you’re saying there is it’s the only way you’re going to elevate yourself or catch anyone’s attention, otherwise, you’re going to stay in the in The swappable well imagine you’re selling water, and you have two competitors are selling similar water.
Then your probability to win the deal is only going to be one third. So if you want to go beyond that simple probability, you’ve got to find a way to say what’s different about your water mm-hmm and most people again when they are in the commodity business. Most people shy away from doing it because they are looking for the differentiation in the product itself and you won’t find it because by definition, it’s a commodity.
So you’ve got to find a way to say that you will deliver on the water for free or you will do you know your packaging is recyclable or you’re. The greenest provider of you know water or whatever and amazingly enough, regardless of if that differentiation, that uniqueness does not belong to the product, it will still create enough appeal in the brain of a customer that they might decide to buy from you.
So one of the things you say in in in the in in the material surrounding your book is obviously when somebody approaches it first and goes neuromarketing. Oh that sounds very complex. I don’t know if I could do that, but you’re saying that it. Actually, you have been able to make this simple, where people can actually understand how to do it and actually deliver it yeah. In fact, I think we made a big mistake when we named our first book neuromarketing that the subtitle was understanding the back button inside your customers brain.
We assumed that people would understand what no marketing means. So in our second book we decided that is not the right title and that’s why we named our second book, the persuasion code and it’s really about understanding how people used our brain to make buying decisions. And it’s really about not only using science but simplifying that science. You know Kahneman the guy one, that you’re kind of mean normal price I just mentioned was a very feller.
The only problem is he didn’t make his knowledge very accessible in all. His book is pH D plus plus level reading, and I had to read his book of course many times and most people that have opened up his book. They gave up after 30 percent of the book just because it’s so complicated, so a big part of our job. In connecting that making that connection between the world of neural, you know, researchers on the brain and the world of marketing was to simplify the equation.
In fact, what we found was the most difficult in that simplification was to make it visual. In other words, if you look at our book, we have one poster at the beginning of the book, which summarizes everything and for us to be able to come up with the right visual metaphor, to explain what we do. It took us a long long time. You know it’s a little bit like the teachers that we had at school right.
You could have a very, very smart teacher if he cannot make his knowledge accessible, everybody hates him, and nobody is good in any subject and the teacher that could make their knowledge more accessible, regardless of the complexity of the concept that they were teaching. They are the one that are really helpful, yeah ya know cuz. I remember one teacher from when I was very, very small and he used to draw little stupid little pictures in chalk and on the board.
You know and illustrate everything with these ridiculous little stick figures and doing stupid things. Everybody remembered everybody knew what he was talking about and you know why, because at that moment it is more appealing for the primal brain of the audience. Then the neocortex then the rational, when in fact I don’t know if your listeners can see the camera, but this is our old poster, so we know poster you know we had a stop point and we had an end point and that end point was the bite.
But another – and you know second book now: we’ve rendered the whole thing a little bit more sophisticated and we’re using a completely different metaphor. In fact, it’s a more scientific metaphor that we’re using excellent ok. So in the last couple of minutes, Patrick, is there anything else? You’d like to highlight about the book well, and just maybe I relate the book to what’s happening today in the news.
As you know, a lot of people are concerned about what Russia and China are doing, and you know a book is releasing the exact date of the book. Release is September 19th and will receive an order from China from the Chinese publisher. We already bought 5,000 copies of the book, and the second country that bought a book was Russia, so on one hand I’m very excited because it’s good for us. On the other hand, I am very concerned because it’s probably the last people I would wish they would know about that – sign they’re already really good, but I am worried about knowledge.
Well, I think the only way to to counteract that is for lots of people in Europe and America to buy it too. I mean you know when, when you understand how market ears are trying to influence your decision, then you can start to protect yourself. If you know against how people influence you, in fact, as a professional in that field, I am always questioning myself when I want to buy something. I’m going.
Okay, I’m mind buying it because the message was very good or I might buy it because it’s really going to help my life and sometimes I can say no, I don’t want it because I don’t need it sometimes, when the message is that good? Well, I still buy that ice cream. Although I really know it’s bad for me. Well, everybody needs a little bit of ice cream again. Well, listen! Patrick again! The book is the persuasion code.
How neuromarketing can help you persuade anyone anywhere anytime available on all the online booksellers it’ll be in the sales pop bookstore as well, and the release date is, as you said, September 18th. I think yes excellent, so I really encourage you to go out and if you get a chance to listen to Patrick speak he’s an excellent speaker too. So thank you very much for for joining us today, Patrick thank you and you have a good day yeah.
Thank you. This John golden says pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM see all again for an expert interview really soon, so I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our YouTube blog and then comment get involved. In the conversation. Love to hear what you have to say:
All of me, it was a huge amount of money for me because at that time I was still a university student, but listen to this carefully. I’m not here to praise her sales tactic. In fact, I hate her sales. That means so much because I felt that sure the whole process I was pressured to buy the package and, as a result, even after I bought the package, I wasn’t a happy customer.
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My name is John golden from sails pop online sales magazine and pipeliner CRM here in a lovely sunny San Diego afternoon and I’m delighted to be joined by Catherine Malloy, who was on the Sunshine Coast in Australia. Tomorrow, I’m here Thursday afternoon, Catherine’s there, Friday morning, bright and early. So I really appreciate you getting up early to talk with us today: Catherine’s international speaker and communication expert, 25 years of experience in business training and facilitation, and especially in especially in communication and neuro-linguistic programming.
I think you have your degree in as well as obviously all your business experience and what we wanted to talk today is how to optimize communication when it comes to sales, but not just in the traditional sense of face-to-face, but in all the ways that challenge salespeople Nowadays, in virtual communication, even in I mean people says, people in are communicating with prospects through text. We’re going to say excel mean what about what challenges are facing people today in figuring out how to be effective in their communication, when people are communicating in so many different ways.
Catherine, I always like to ask a big question and then just sit back. You know it’s really important. We all need to upgrade the number one skill on the planet and that’s communication, and so many businesses closed down because they don’t really know how to communicate to the customer. Now. The interesting thing is, technology has changed the way we grow food eat food, buy food, our furniture for our offices, all these wonderful things, but guess what the raw behavior styles of people haven’t changed, and I think this is the key to the way that we build Sales now I actually wrote a book called the million dollar handshake.
It’s just been published in three languages. It only was really. Last year, it’s in the northern and southern hemisphere. We’ve just picked up some books from England, they’ve released them under Seven Dials. We’ve got hash. Ed we’ve got two other companies releasing them around the world as well, and it really is about the way that we can make ourselves feel a million dollars. The way that we can make our customers feel great and create that win-win situation.
So when you say interesting thing is when, when you say, rob raw behavior style, what do you mean? Okay, so I’ve got a quote here that I wrote. What you believe doesn’t make you a better person mm-hmm. The way you behave does sure, because what we believe isn’t always right now we have natural behavior styles. I can connect and communicate with anyone anywhere. I went to China and within two days how to contract I’ve been back there every year to speak for the translators Association in the foreign ministers.
Now everyone says it’s very, very hard to get a deal in China takes a long time. I’ve worked in Saudi Arabia, UAE lots of countries that you know it’s. It’s got a lot of different culture, ruler aspects that we need to know about, so it really is about being intelligent when it comes to communication, so we do need to you know. What are you doing to upgrade your number-one skills in communication and I’m a body language expert, and I truly believe this is why I get better results with what I do so we need to study.
We need to learn. We need to immerse ourselves in communication and when we understand behavior styles, whether that person is dominant, are they breathing fast? Are they commanding whether they’re influential and they want you to be their best friend? They want you to like them. They want to tell you everything. That’s happening or whether perhaps are a little bit more steady and they need to build that relationship with you, so hopeful they’re going to give you anything.
So how can I go on last but not least, they might be the person that really wants all the facts and figures before anything is going to happen. Now you have a natural way that you want to do business yeah, but that might not suit the other. 75 % of people mm-hmm, so once you start to understand how you can connect and communicate, we can also do this through our emails, our social media, etc, but we’ll get into that in a little bit.
Sorry, what was the first question was, so how does a salesperson or anyone else? How did they establish there very quickly or early on the type of person they’re dealing with and the Preferences that that person has for how they want to be communicated with fabulous? It’s about being conscious. The first thing you need to do, though, is understand your behavior style. You need to understand your domino effect in every communication that you have, and you know it’s interesting because body language is in every communication experience you’ll ever have even when you’re typing that email you’re going to have a certain body language coming through, even when you’re speaking Even right now, when we’re speaking to each other or when we meet someone face to face, so we’ve got to start to understand who we are and even in in my book here I have a PDF, you can download, you can fill in or you can fill It in straight from the book and start to understand who you are, how you connecting communicates, what is going to be the best way for you, because, let’s face it, if you have a business, everyone in your business, you want them to be a salesperson for your Team mm-hmm people hate the word sales and we need to get over that.
If you don’t sell, you don’t have a business yeah. Well, what I always say what I would say to people when they have a problem with the whole sales moniker is, I say you can call yourself whatever you want, but guess what the person you’re selling to they know you’re a salesperson. We have to remember that as well, and you know I always think to sell is to serve because if someone comes to you or you go to someone and you don’t provide that service for them, then you haven’t really served them.
Have you know and a lot of people you’ll go and buy something, and then you go home and someone will say: oh, you should have got this or this or you could add that to it. They didn’t even tell you about it. Now you’ve got to waste. Your time going back to fine that what you need and perhaps you’ll go somewhere somewhere else because they didn’t satisfy your needs. So what are what are some of the simple body? Language cues? That you can pick up on the either about yourself or about the person that you’re communicating with okay.
So the first thing I’ll talk about is yourself mm-hmm, okay, very important to understand the cultures you’re going into because body language is different around the world. You know if you did this here in Australia that would be okay or on Facebook. You might like it in India, maybe you’re going to get a 7-up if you’re a scuba, diving – and you said yeah, I’m okay, they’d shoot you to the top. You’d have to do that if you did that in some countries, they’d be very rude and you might get you know put in jail.
So it’s really important number one to understand that, but there’s a few things that we can do that will make a difference anywhere with anyone. So a lot of salespeople you’ll ask them a question or a customer service and they might go like this. Oh yes, do this now straightaway we know they’ve got a pain in the neck and they’re, not really sure, and when somebody does that I go, would you please you know find out for me it’s very very important because I know straightaway they don’t really know mm-hmm.
Now body language is very subjective. If I touch my nose now, it’s probably because it’s freezing, cold and and it wants to drip right – or perhaps I want to sneeze or maybe ever smelt – something really bad. But what’s interesting is most time when salespeople are speaking. They touch their nose because they’re a little frustrated and uncomfortable right now so you’ll see people online, telling you how fantastic their product is it’s true and when they do that, I know at that time: they’re not comfortable with it.
Now I can train people not to touch their face to make great eye contact, not to blink a hundred times, but you know what I rather coach them to understand: why they have a frustration they’re. What makes them uncomfortable mm-hmm and if it’s not great for the customer, what can you do to make it great for the customer, because those frustrations and movements will go away once you have great product knowledge and – and you believe in the benefit to that customer yeah? No, I totally agree with you.
I think it’s an interesting it’s an interesting concept that you brought up there, because I do think that how you present yourself, how you go into a room, how you go online, whatever, how you’re feeling and how you approach it is going to translate in one way Or the other yeah, obviously through nonverbal communications and through and through how you sound and – and so you kind of have to make up your mind before you start about.
How do you want to show up right correct? Absolutely we react in 125th of a second before we speak, and that’s why husbands and wives can fight for two days without saying a word because of the raise of an eyebrow at the wrong time. And this happens in your offices as well, and you might even see a client, you know, and you think, oh here they come again. What am I going to do and straightaway you’ve told them that even before you’ve opened your mouth and that’s why we have so much miscommunication? And you know it’s interesting because when we’re talking about behavior styles, before even in your emails, you can start to tell who the person is.
Are they dot pointing do they want you to do this this and this? Are they, after your facts and figures, do they put Smiley’s everywhere because they want you to be happy with them, you know, or are they going to tell you all about everything and you don’t even really understand what is that question they want right, but it starts To tell you who they are yeah, and I guess then the worst thing you can do right if, for instance, right if you email me with very concise bullet points – and this is what you want and I email you back a novel right, I’m we’re pretty misaligned Right, correct, correct, so it really is about, like I believe, to sell, is to serve and when you do find out who that customer is because they’ll, let you know you’ll hear it in their voice.
You’ll see it online, you might meet them face-to-face or you’ll. Get it through that email, you start to find out who they are and you need to respond, so you need to match them because guess what there’ll be something about you that they like, but they won’t know what it is right. That’s actually the fact that you will like them, people like like: don’t they yeah they do. I was telling someone. I was interviewing somebody of the day and they tell me this this interesting story.
I think they were. They would right, along with the salesperson right and the salesperson, got a text from their prospect and immediately they picked up the phone and started calling them calling the prospect and the prospect was like. Well. Can you just text me back and the coach turned round and said: why did you call him when he texted you clearly that’s how he wanted you to communicate so you’ve got a match: people’s communication style.
You do, and I do believe, though, that someone might email you in asking for information and you, if you just email that back guess what you might lose that deal, because you haven’t been able to speak or add value. So in that text that you send back. You could say: look I’d, love to have a quick chat just to do a discovery and make sure what would be the best time for you so text them, email them back in their format, but think in that time that you can actually do a real discovery.
In that value, no absolutely I no 100 % agree, but don’t presume that you can just switch their mode just like that without any. I remember somebody wanted me and they sent me a message, a message, err and then they sent me something on LinkedIn and then they sent me an email and by the time we were supposed to meet. I had no idea where I had to go to get the information so surprised they didn’t turn up outside your window.
The placard [ Laughter ] in those situations. You know you’re responding, I’m messenger been LinkedIn there. You know it’s like. Oh, let’s agree to to have which is the best form of communication for you, but don’t think just to come back to, because I think it’s it’s a really really fundamental and an important point and not just for sales. But I think in the world that we live in today, because communication has gotten so messed up is that we all have to start with ourselves right.
The onus is on us to to to be conscious of how we communicate and how we show up, and rather than put the rather than as it seems, the trend in the world today is to push everything off on everybody else and say: well, it’s all about Everybody else’s fault, but it’s you got to start with yourself right, absolutely and look the reason that after all these years, we are still such bad communicators, no matter how many forms of communication we create is, I believe, there’s a couple things with human nature and we Understand it once we understand the behavior styles, each one will have their own little basements that we have to work through.
Ah, but there’s a thing called ego, hmm and also laziness, and I believe, when you’re a salesperson, you really want to eradicate those two things – and you know, laziness is just sending out spraying information to everybody. If you’re a salesperson which we all are, we need to have that communication, we need to pick up the phone, we need to ask questions and not just read someone create a story for that person.
Oh, I don’t want to disturb them or they’re too busy. You know one of my biggest clients, I got them as a contact first of all and I get a lot of business through LinkedIn, so it is great out there and I contacted them and they said, Oh fantastic. Can you send, through some information, sent that through months later, did my follow-up are yeah we’re not ready yet you know please get back in contact with us, so I’d I read for six months following up and contact them and then I said because we’ve start to Build a bit of a relationship, I said, I’m so sorry, I’m feeling like a stalker.
Do you still want me to communicate with you? Yes, yes, but that’s that was that person’s behavior style there was Ned eNOS, it’s going to take them a little longer. Thirteen months later, we sealed the deal mm-hmm five hundred thousand dollars worth of training that was ongoing over the next 18 months. So the interesting thing is that we feel we should give up or we could make stories or they don’t really want want this.
But you don’t know unless you ask the question: no make up story that just leaves us. Oh, what can we do? Yeah? No exactly, but it’s a great point, because it’s it’s because people do have a tendency to you know either to give up, and I think the point that you came up about did you meant laziness is a good one. It’s because, unfortunately, again coming back to technology, we’ve spoiled we’re spoiled with all these spray-and-pray spam tools out there.
So I could sit here all day and I can fire out stuff all over the place and if nobody comes back to me or I can just put them into nurture Kanban – and I don’t have to do anything right – I can sit down then I can go Well, I’m trying I’m really trying I’m doing follow-up but nobody’s contacting me. So it’s not my fault again. I’ve got this great little thing that I’d love to share with your listeners yeah, and I call it digger and I believe, if you are a sales person getting paid for Commission, we’re not always the best with admin and paperwork.
So I truly believe setting up the night before so that when you come in the next morning, you can just now those first three things you know, we’ve all heard you know swallow the frog eat the spider, doing the things you don’t really want to do. First up but digger in Australia were the men that went to war and they they had a person with them that helped them get through everything. And you know that was like the word mate and in Australia, and you don’t call anyone a digger even if they they’re your mate, because that was war and, like I lost my grand-grandfather there as well.
But digger for me is daily income generating activity, say that again daily income generating activity, and so that’s my best mate in business. So I write down three things: each day, whether it’s doing the blog, whether it’s doing the article, whether it’s making a hot call, a cold call, maybe getting some of those warm leads. But every day you should be doing something that really will bring in money.
For the business yeah yeah, I think that’s a fantastic piece of advice because I think we’re all very good, sometimes at busy work or finding things to occupy our day and sometimes avoiding the tea. As you say, the digger the daily income generating activities first time because they maybe are the harder things to do yeah yep, and we get that out the way. Then the the day’s amazing plus it starts to unfold.
You know – and it really is, if we want to be successful in business, we need to upgrade that number one skill of communication. Well, that’s fantastic, perfect way to bookend the conversation here, Catherine, we’re bumping up against the end of our time, but before we go I’d like you to tell people a little bit more about yourself what you do and how they can learn, learn more about you! Oh okay, fabulous so obviously Catherine Malloy and I am an international speaker.
I work all around the world and I speak in communication and body language because I really believe in business growth. I wrote the book, the million dollar handshake, because what happened was ten years ago. My husband felt very ill. We had to sell our business, we lost over a million dollars that was tied up in the belly business. We had three children still at a private school and we were then left with a big mortgage on the house.
That also left us with no jobs, so there was a big decision time and I was sort of that person that I thought wow. This is almost a chance to to open the door to what’s possible in life. What do I really really wanted to and back when I was 21, I started studying body language by the age of 22. I was topping sales in Westpac, one of our biggest banks here in Australia, and I really understood how that product knowledge equalled customer service and from customer service sales cloud.
But when you could understand people and not just read body language and make up stories for them. But understand what your body language was communing communicating to others. Then I really started to Nollan and I went into training. I wasn’t having children, my husband said he couldn’t have kids and we had three and four years so that kind of changed everything sounds like you learned plenty, but anyway it was interesting.
So I started this business as pack business advantage and it was really dealing with soft skills. We also had government funding to deliver diploma of leadership management, so I wrote units for that. I won awards in management and leadership of won awards in America with our Stevie. For our sales and leadership training and I also wrote the conscious connection framework, which won a pacific award back in 2017.
So what we’re doing was making a big difference for four people, and so now, we’ve also with our million dollar handshake book, because in my first year of business by myself, I signed over a million dollars in training deals face to face. So that’s how that began. It’s got body language, the handshakes, behaviors mindsets and how to connect and communicate with anyone anywhere taste other’s stories and there’s online training at the end of each chapter.
So if you want to go a bit deeper in any of those you can you can download PDFs for your team for your family. I just really want to get this message out to as many people as possible and now a third of that book goes to our charity that I started in 2010. When I started my business, I said to my husband, ten percents going to charity and he’s like you can’t we’ve lost all this money. I said I need that because for me I need to be doing more than just just for us and now a third of it goes to our charities in Uganda and this year.
We’re writing a book of life worth leading and we’re also working with doctors in Mumbai for cancer patients, children that would actually die because they don’t have money for to treat cancer and now they’re getting 12 months in this amazing hospital being looked after with their families. Coming in so that they can go on with their lives as well, so I think that once we use our skills to the best that we can yeah, we can make a difference anyway.
That’s fantastic! Well there. So it sounds like you’re. You know you’ve got a lot of spare time on your hands, Katherine well, yeah, that’s really! Quite a fantastic, obviously scatter malloy calm, a you. We will have your profile on sales pop, so people can learn more about you and I and the book will be up there too, and congratulations on all your Awards and the fantastic were charity work that you’re doing it’s been a great conversation.
My name is John golden sales. Pop online says magazine, pipeliner CRM, CEO friend, our expert interview really soon. Thank you. Thank you.
My name is John golden from sails pop online says magazine, I’m pipeliner CRM and today I’m joined by Patrick wen Hua’s, a who is the author of the upcoming book, the persuasion code and your marketing can help you persuade anyone anywhere anytime. So welcome Patrick hey good afternoon John, so Patrick, you have been talking about neural marketing and you have you know you ordered another book before and you’ve been in this in this area.
You know for a long long time, so tell me a little bit about what is what is different about your book. That’s coming out in September, the the persuasion code. So what happened is about 17 years ago there was a new branch of marketing that was born called neural marketing, and here is the promise of newer marketing. The promise is that traditional marketing does not really work. Why? Because in traditional marketing, here is what we do.
We ask people: what do you want and then based on their answers? We won’t build a product and later we will create a strategy to sell that part, but the reality is that people don’t really know what they want. As a result, traditional marketing is very often detailing, and the promise of newer marketing was very different. The promise of newer marketing is that we would ask people what do you want, but we will not trust their self-reported answers.
Instead, we could measure directly on their bodies, values, physiological changes that indicate what people truly want so 17 years ago, the world was on fire when people started to use this, because the promise was just too good to be true, and so, if you fast forward 17 Years later, neural marketing has exploded in order today there are over a hundred companies in the world that offered various kinds of services around the home marketing, but it has not really delivered on its initial promise and it has not initially delivered why? Because there is not a single unifying model that explains what you find when you do these physiological measurements.
No word anybody can do various kinds of physiological measurements and by the way, those techniques go from very simple, very inexpensive ones. Where you can measure, for example, the eg on the head of people or you can in measure their emotion based on how to contract the 43 muscles on their faces, or you can measure how their skin changes react resistance. So all these measurements are very easy to do, but what’s really hard is how do you interpret them in a complete? You know sales and marketing approach.
In other words, how should an advertiser change its sales and marketing strategies based on those measurements? So, unfortunately, the initial promise of no marketing has not really delivered. So when we wrote our first book, we suggested that there might be a model that helps you guide everything you do not read them to make it really effective, but we had not tied all that model to all these measurements.
So, what’s continued in our new book is that we are now explaining how it really works, in other words, it’s a little bit like if you are talking about physics. As you know, in physics we are trying to unify the two basic physics model: the traditional physics, bye, doc, bye I’ll help me with his name. It was a British guys, future new Neutron, you use it and the quantum physics. So there is not a single unifying model yet, but we’re getting closer and closer well, there is no single unifying model of sales of marketing and our model, we believe, is their very first one.
That just does that. You know it’s a complete model that explains how people use their brain to make buying decisions and based on that, it helps any entrepreneur. Anybody who has to convince other people about what they need to do if they want to be more successful in sales and marketing. Right so so explain to the people, their listeners, who may not have come across this before or not really pay too much attention.
But why is it that you can’t trust what people initially say they want, or why is it that that neuroscience plays such a big role in really understanding what you know how people make decisions as opposed to what they say sure well think about it. If I ask you, imagine you walk in the restaurant and instead of offering you a menu, I ask you: what do you want to eat tonight? You see how embarrassing how difficult it is to figure out what you really want mm-hmm, whereas if you see that many of you, oh yeah, the chicken looks really good on the menu today.
So when people have to self-report what they really want or what they really like, they are going through the funnel of expressing with words what they want, and that does not allow them to really access the unconscious. As you know, in the mind, if you think about it, there is really a conscious part, which is only five to ten percent of who we are. And then there is this big iceberg underneath it, which is 90 percent of we are, and we really have access to that unconscious and asking people to access that unconscious.
By using words, you know, self-reported words is mission impossible. So the reality is people who really know what they want. However, our body does so, for example, when you get scared, you know you get the first signs of fear even before you’re aware that you’re scared, and today there are a number of tools that we can use to make those measurements. So, in essence, those measurements are allowing us to poke into the unconscious of people, and the techniques are very reliable in the past they used to be very complicated.
In other words, you needed a supercomputer, you needed 10 PhDs to run it and a big budget. Today, all these techniques admitted you know very affordable. In fact, some of these techniques are even accessible for free on the web. So how would you if you take this over the sales for a moment right, so you know sales people have to ask a lot of questions and do discovery and really try and uncover what somebody what a prospect is looking for.
So how does it play into that because, like you said I mean, maybe this is a difficult process for the actual customer. Yes, so in the case of myself, it way now is, if you take that idea and put it in the context of a one-on-one meeting between the buyer and a seller, I mean that what the very first task are the seller is really to understand what are Some of the negative thoughts that are going into the mind of the buyer, I mean in our book.
We call that the pain mm-hmm, but the unconscious pain we believe, are more important than the conscious pains and I’m going to give you an example right now. Imagine the seller is selling home, delivered pizza and the buyer is the average consumer of pizza mm-hmm, most people when you ask them. So what do you work when it comes to a pizza? You know people can talk about, they will tell you. I want extra pepperoni and I want cheese etc, but in reality there is a small company in the u.
S. That figured this out. But four years ago they figured out that not one pain of people buy home. Deliver pizza. I know almost like the unconscious pain. Is the anxiety of not knowing when the pizza will arrive right and again, it would be almost. It would be impossible for most people toward that, but we can measure it on a bun and figuring this out that no pizza shop came up with a slogan and never struggle.
It was 30 minutes or less for extreme mm-hm, and that little place is now known. As Domino’s Pizza – and they became number one now W speaking number one, not because they make the best pizza but because they were able to diagnose that pain and then they build a complete organization whose unique purpose is to eliminate that. So this is the case of Domino’s, going back to our case of a single one on one person selling the job of the sales guy is to read between the line of the answers that the person will that the person will given, but so, if I am That person trying to sell you, Domino’s Pizza, I’m going to ask you questions about, so you know you’re going to be home alone tonight.
What are some of the thoughts that go through your brain etc? And I’m going to try to force you to admit that you have this unconscious pain, but, as you can imagine, it’s a very difficult job. In other words, it’s a job which is more the job of a psychologist than it is the job of a salesperson, and that’s why salespeople typically, are not very good at doing this, because we train ourselves people to be good talkers.
Unfortunately, most of them are not good listeners and to throw a good diagnostic of that pain to find between the line where the consumer really wants. It takes somebody who has the capacity to listen very deeply, and it takes the capacity of people can ask the right questions and and a prospect or a customer. It’s one of the value drivers will reward you for uncovering something. You know a problem or a pain that they either didn’t know they had or did not weren’t aware that it was that acute right.
So that’s really where you logged in yeah, when you do that diagnostic of the pain properly there are two major benefit. The first benefit is it’s a soft way of selling. You know where you don’t have to say: well, we have the best product, I’m the best sales guy, no you’re, demonstrating your expertise, not by what you say, but by what you ask for by the quality of the questioning that you drive. So that’s the first thing.
The second thing is asking question: is the best way to develop rapport right, if you think about it, the people that are interesting, a lot of people that talk about himself. There are the people that talk to you about you. So, what’s the best way for me to talk to you about you, if you ask you question and so and so getting back, pivoting back a little to the neuro marketing piece. So when you look at at most companies marketing today say software products or whatever.
What do you see is the big problem with the kind of traditional marketing and how could people flip that using newer marketing? Well, the problem is that marketing well done typically is very expensive. I mean you need to do big surveys. You need to question a lot of people, so I think a lot of people think of marketing as an expensive task, but when I think about it, for us, Noora marketing is really what can help people differentiate between the what people think they want and what people Really want inside the unconscious and for a large company.
This is invaluable. You know I’ll give you just one example: we’re working for Avon, for example, and you know trying some of our techniques they’ve been able to see sales increase by up to 40 % for some of the shampoo products, because a lot of the ads that they were Doing were too focused on the product itself, etc, but it was not really addressing some of the core pains or negative emotion that resides in the brain of our consumers right.
So that is really the promise of no marketing it’s to help. People do focus everything. They talked about which typically centered on the mimimi, I mean most people, if you think about it most people when they talk about the products and services they talk about who they are and what they do, mm-hmm. In fact, if you look at all websites, most websites include a tab which is called who we are and another tab, which is called what we do, but the critical information that is missing there is: why should the customer buy right, and what we have seen is That noir marketing is the fastest surest way to get companies to quickly focus and now down on why the customer should buy.
So what are some other examples that you’ve seen of where somebody has done this? Well, where they’ve changed their marketing approach and and really hit the you know, hit the target. You know there are no many examples, but if you’re talking about Apple, for example, right the computer and phone company Steve Jobs by the way used to say we don’t do marketing at Apple, because the consumer doesn’t know – and I know better than them what they want.
So we’re going to build it if you’re, not in fact not completely wrong, we’re going to sell a lot of it, but Apple has been the champion of this now think about it. I’d like to take you back about 30 years ago. Why would people want to buy an Apple computer thirty years ago? There was only one reason think about 30 years ago. Yes, the reason is slightly different today. That’s why I’m bringing you back a few years back? Why would people buy a Macintosh when the main computer? Well, the main competitor at the time was the regular PC at the time they it was very specialized.
I mean there were people, maybe actually yes, designers and people like that who bought Max’s right and a few students. You know what was the main reason. Why? Because it was easier to use, you know what, if you were buying your PC, he didn’t have a degree in computer science. It would be very hard for you to use it right, so Macintosh make it easier for people so Apple use. That claim, in other words, the reason why you would want to buy your Apple computer years and years ago, was easier to use and slowly over time as computers became easier to use Apple to endorse another crime, and why would people buy an iPhone today? There’s still only one reason, but it’s slightly different.
It’s no one here to use because every four years is to use – and you know what it is: it’s cool to use cool yeah. So this again so Apple decided once and for all in the 35 year history. They went from a t1 claim, is it to use and they slowly switch to cool to use over a period of time, but they did that because they know that had been one crime. You know being able to write the book. Why buy enough? On the only one chapter mm-hm and hammering that chapter you know cause when Apple’s 20 years ago was selling a mirror.
It was always you know easy to use by creating that repetition by making it clear as to what is that one chapter in the book title? Why buy an Apple Apple has been extremely extremely successful, so Apple was using some of the concept that we are now explaining from a purely scientific standpoint for for many many years right so, but so basically BAM based on that, then, are you saying that most companies Should really look at uncovering that that one or two reasons, real reasons why a customers should buy from them absolute and it an it, and as you say, it’s not the obvious one in terms of it may not be they the product itself.
It may be something you know totally tangental even to it right absolutely I mean, if you think about it, easy to use and a Macintosh computer. It has nothing to do fast. Delivery has nothing to do with the pizza itself. In other words, unfortunately, if you’re selling your commodity, you will not be able to find what makes you unique in the product itself, because, by definition it’s a commodity, so you’ve got to find that one reason why people want to buy it and it’s going to be Outside of the product, functions and features itself, and all the companies that are successful have destroyed it for a long long time.
That’s excellent advice so before we finish up today, give me a little bit more information about when your book is available about your company about yourself and how people can learn more about you right. So our first book is the valuable you know it was written about. Fifteen years ago, so it’s still available. Our new book titled, the persuasion code, will be available in mid September, is published by ye, and the information is already available on amazon.
Com and what we are is we are the only advertising agency in the world that uses no marketing techniques to diagnose the pain of The customer and ours fine, the true motivation that drives people to buy. Then we are a strategic, consulting firm. We guide the choice of companies on what is that one chapter in your book and we train people on all these concepts and the last thing we do is we have a small, creative arm.
Then, once we have agreed on all this concept, they actually rhyme. So the concepts are, what are the pains in the brain of your customers, and how do you diagnose that then? The second concept is: how do you differentiate your claims numbers? How do you make your solution appear completely unique in the eyes of your customers, even if you’re selling commodity, we call that the claims? The third concept is, how do you demonstrate the game? No, it’s not enough to say I have the best product.
How do you actually prove it and how the volume so pain claim and gain, and the last step is: how do you deliver to the primal brain? In other words, how do you deliver your message to the unconscious of the consumer? Okay, so we packages we package, our services, so that small companies and not company alike, can see benefit in applying a model that is again completely anchored in the science of the human right.
Yeah, it’s fascinating stuff and I’ve had the pleasure of seeing Patrick speak before so I would highly recommend that you, you check out the sales brain and check out Patrick and check out his book and I think you’ll find it extremely fascinating. So listen thanks again, Patrick for joining us. Today. We look forward to to your book and to seen the model in you know its glory coming out in September and then learning more about this fascinating subject.
So thank you for joining us today. My name is John Gould and sales pop online says magazine. Pipeliner CRM will see all for another expert inside interview really soon. Thank you, John. So I encourage you to subscribe to sales pop dotnet. The online sales magazine also subscribe to our You, Tube blog and then comment get involved in the conversation, love to hear what you have to say.
Gallen in Switzerland. How you doing I’m doing very well? How are you doing? Thank you for inviting me for this collegial talk yeah, absolutely and for those of you who want to wear.
Dr. Malik is scientist author advisor educator and chairman of the management centers and Gallants Whitson under the Mallik Institute for complexity, management, governments, governance and leadership. Friedman has written a number of books and, to be honest, this is one of those occasions where I can say I have read a number of those books and we ourselves here at pipeliner, followed the thematic management theory and find it it has transformed the way we Do business so it’s excited to to talk to you today.
So what I wanted to talk about is this concept of integration or superest integration and, first of all, maybe for everybody here. Maybe if you can just define or explain what’s integration is, did you say to make something clear? You did really read the book, so you didn’t. Oh, I did yes, yes like no. I did. I read the books. In fact, you know we. We we followed the. We follow the management theory here at that pipeliner, okay, okay, well, this integration is an artificial.
It’s a creation of words. Combining two words name is synergy and integration, so sin a duration and what it actually means is bringing together quite a number, a big number, a large number of people to join in in a highly harmonious symphonie, one could always almost say in order to interconnect our Knowledge is from very many fields, creating something as a rule, totally new to a leading question, which is important, has been selected by the board or whatever Authority in their organizations to be of utmost importance.
So so this concept, I think, becomes even more exciting when you think about that organizations are, are no longer they’re, no longer restricted or homogeneous or even one-dimensional, because they can now have a mixture of like full-time employees, part-timers contractors, some office space, some remote spread around The world, so this idea of bringing all these skill sets together. It’s almost like it’s time has arrived, because now you don’t have the restrictions on getting to the expertise you need.
Yes, that is true, and it depends of course or it is. It follows from the technological breakthroughs we have done in the last couple of decades by the use of cybernetics of computer technology, of more than information and communication technology which follow from these Sciences. And so, at the first time in, let me say in the practice of management actually, which is very old one actually, because people have all always had to manage their the destination their daily life.
But for the first time we are acute with totally different technologies. We have not so far, at least broadly speaking, followed up with the organizational setups which is needed, so you have painted a very, very colored and good picture of all those combinations of things which we’re quite a couple of years, unthinkable, mm-hmm and – and it’s it’s funny – That you should say that about the organization’s not catching up, because it’s it’s quite ironic, and I and I find this all the time.
Is you see openes who have disruptive or innovative business models or products or services and they’re highly creative, innovative companies, but when they make the breakthrough, they then create very, very traditional, hierarchical companies. They bring people together and they build offices and they adopt extremely traditional models, which seems almost at odds with their disruptive. You know business models or breakthrough technologies, so so how do companies start to catch up? Because that’s at that obviously is going to impact at some stage the way you operate.
In our case I mean practically all of these, or most of these startup companies start with technology, some sort of digitalization, of course, that’s very understandable. These are the young people who are becoming very familiar in their university years or whatever, even as amateurs, but we did it the other way around just by accident. Basically, we started with the organizational said no wanted to know.
How would organizations look like if we, if we looked at them or try to understand them as living organisms? For it is a metaphor, a picture which will help many so interconnected systems, organizationally people and all the departments and whatever we have? And this is an offspring of cybernetics too. So I would like tend to mention just a little bit fact that my kind of management is a twin brother to digitalization yeah and and, as I said, I mean we follow your management theories here and found them to be extremely effective in in how it helps Us operate as an organization, so how much does this change this access to talent across the globe and in in different mode? As I said, you can have full-time employee contract.
You can scale your business now with a lot of variable resources, because you’ve accent access to them. That’s going to change the balance of power somewhat because in in past times it’s like you have companies, maybe you have like Silicon Valley and it’s all concentrated there and that’s where people need to be and that’s the balance. But now we have the potential for some kind of sort of global democratization of resources right absolutely, and it’s done that it’s worldwide possible.
Basically, let us build a way for a moment political fact: difficulties between different countries, China, the u.S. Etcetera cetera. There are still some career, but even they become very, very they become penetrated by technology, basically and by what technology transports and interconnects these days, namely intelligence by the way of information and communication in totally new formats, yeah and obviously, with the digital.
With the with the spread of broadband and now the promise of 5g, the the ability for people, as you say, across the globe, to be able to contribute to the to to the digital world, is going to grow exponentially right absolutely and what grows the fastest is Complexity, so let me let me point to the fact that for the first time in history, due to technology, I mean what I should say first is that it is not digitalization or digitization.
However, one pronounces it particularly in your country, it is not really new. We have the idol the last analog computer in the 1970s or so so that’s not really new, and we had already a big big company by the name of digital equipment. You might remember, and his very very famous founder canossian. The thing is, or the point is, what does digitization really allow us to do, and this is for the first time in history we can interconnect everything to everything else globally and this will be sort of an Omega state.
So to speak – and this is the power which is already working in nature, but in evolution by bringing up totally new things, creativity, amplification of intelligence, combining it the connecting everything with everything else, basically, globally. It will last a few years until we achieve that state really. But the technology is there and examples of this means that I mean the driving forces. You interrupt me please, no, no go on do not go head to head.
The driving forces are, of course, these technologies, but it’s not only the computer side. It’s only the biologic. It’s also the biological ones, so the bio science has become very, very important with the help of the computers, and this is one driving force. Another one is the demography I mean in. We have a lot of demographic issues and challenges. Another one is ecology, of course, and the ecosystems become all the more important and then we have also the indebtedness, the economic situation at now, but the strongest right, the most powerful driver is, in my opinion, complexity.
What comes out, interconnectivity is what we call complexity and many people shy away from it and they want to reduce complexity. On the other hand, some some things have to be reduced, probably, and in some instances it is okay. So, but on the other hand, our brains are the most complex apparatus, so to speak organs there are some ten hundred billions. It’s hundred billions of of nerve cells are interconnected in so and so many trillions of time, and this is the basis of our intelligence and our knowledge and even our emotions mm-hm.
And it’s interesting that you talk about the complexity, because, obviously yes, when you get this global democratization, etc, then it it does become more complex to manage all of this. But at the same time you have mentioned cybernetics a couple of times, and you said you know about complexity, so we we also adopt cybernetic principles in our in our products. So how does cybernetics play into this whole scenario? Cybernetics is what whole systems together.
So it is the capacity of self-organization it brings in the capacity to self regulating system to amplification of intelligence, for instance by again interconnecting parts of knowledge. Knowledge — is which are apart so far, but if we interconnect them – and there is a huge outbreak of creativity, for instance, amplification of of intelligence – I already mentioned unfreezing of knowledge, which is otherwise stuck in these silos of the conventional organization, and this gives us an Enormous amount of freedom, also in the emotional sphere.
Basically, because, with the very methodology of cinta Gration, which you meant of our conversation, we can set free the emotions of people in a way which was never even before yeah and so and so getting back to what we’re also talking about. So this raises huge challenges. Then for organizations and how to restructure themselves to be able to take advantage of all of this and, as I said earlier, even the most innovative companies tend to default to very traditional modes of operating and and and the structure and organization.
So now organizations are going to have to become more creative in how they organize themselves correct, exactly they become brain-like, and we actually and explicitly are using together with this integrational and methodologies the model of viable systems as we call it, and this is a model actually Of the human nervous system, which belongs to the most complex, but to very build functioning systems – and this is our hour – let me say our model – we are following because it works so well and we are all familiar with it or at least partly so, and so We are building organizations after that particular model and using cinta Gration as a radical, but then there are totally new kinds of strategy, for instance – and you mentioned the word – the concept of effectiveness at the very beginning.
We are after what we call a culture of effectiveness. So cultures may have many many different formats and one needs several of them, of course, but one thing is how to make all these things effective if in the rising complexity of the various parts of the world – and this is still or has been so far, an Unsolved problem, but we are very close to it. Yes, because, as I said, you know having read your books and and adopted your management and theories, you know focus on the results and effectiveness, and your obviously key to that – and I do feel sometimes you see and there’s a danger here as well as with these Organizations Asians, that the the journey becomes the focuses of pose to the outcome.
Yes, you are very that’s a very good big picture. You are you’re painting, so with the tools and, of course, sciences we are using. We can speed up the working of organizations by. Thank you pocket a factor of 60 to 100, not just six percent or ten percent, which would already be a lot of, but a factor of time, sixty two hundred creating the strong will by people to really change her make use of all these things unfreezing the Emotions and, by the way, the good as opposed to the bad emotions that are there and in many organizations I would say almost in almost all of them.
Quite the problematic emotions are predominating instead of the other ones. Creating a strong will to change your set already. So by using these methods, these social technologies strongly based on the server netic principles, and so but so when you talk to organizations and you do a lot of work with big organizations and what are some of the obstacles or or the resistance you see to this Kind of breakthrough thinking I mean there are quite a number of persons who just cannot imagine.
It is strange. It is like science fiction’s and things like that, and in a way, yes up until, let me say three, four or five years ago or ten make it ten years ago, it was already one could dream about it, and now it is at least becoming reality, and We have already applied that for almost 1,000 times and it never failed and not only that, but it performed so excellently that the satisfaction rankings are between 90 and 100 on a scale of 100 and this astonishes people and in particular also those.
Ladies and gentlemen, in the top ranks because they are suffering from the organizational obstacles to there are so many highly talented persons up there. But then how can they really master and move, let me say accompanied with 400,000 people or make it 40,000. Even that is a very complex organization, and and and and obviously you know, that’s that’s why the temptation then just to put in hierarchies and put in lots and lots of layers of middle management comes in, but that model doesn’t really work when you’re bringing like which It’s integration when you’re bringing talent together for projects or to solve problems or whatever those models start to break down yeah, so it is, and partly we can compare it.
Let me say to a symphony: orchestra know whom of our listeners love for classical music, but on the other hand, if they love jazz, for instance, it is about the same thing. No people can harmoniously work together play together. There is a yes, there is a melody on that basic, but then you can improvise around it and it always comes together to give something better, which is more than just the sum of its parts and symphony some may like better classical music.
Then they can imagine what it actually means, but then we go very much beyond the number of people who constitute the Symphony Orchestra. We can amplify that we can proliferate that kind of interplay and then to change yeah. So it’s it definitely has I mean the division. I think for anyone listening, I mean it. It’s a very exciting one, as I said where you can bring together. All of these different skill sets and creative minds and problem-solve and bring them all together and source them to solve problems and and to you know, achieve the results that you’re looking for.
But, as we said, it raises some challenges for people who have very traditional ways of thinking when it comes to to organizational culture. So what would you in in in the last few minutes here? What are some of the things? How would you advise organizations to start this process or to truly start examining whether they should be looking at an evolution of how they operate? There are very, there are several points to start with.
One is, for instance, to consider just as if it just to compare the organization with a living organism. I do not say that organizations as we have them are living organisms, but anyway they are populated by living organisms. So there is at least for now, and there is a certain comparability. Let me put it like that and then, if we let our ideas flow and say let us assume our company could be a living organism.
What should we have to do? I do not say that organizations already are like living organisms, but we can. We can think about that see and then there come up a lot of creative ideas to stop it. That is one thing another one. If one expands on that idea, you come to the ecosystem, so the word ecosystem become. These are the natural, interconnected kinds of populations plants animals whatever. So this is another good picture which is very attractive to quite a number of persons, another one we have already.
Basically, some of these cybernetic organizations so, for instance, the regulation of the international air traffic air traffic control. We have some 200,000 flights every day Dayton around the globe in every weather, condition and practically nothing happens. So there are already some such instances and examples which one can study and then it flows quite by itself see so the fantasy of people is already stimulated and ignited and they like these kinds of ideas and in particular all of them see, but enough of them On the highest ranks because they see they, they get an idea of how to unleash the potential, which is, let me say, below them, in the organizational excellence which are badly badly needed, and they know that they are yeah and and and beyond.
The organization. As we said now, with the access to all of these resources across the globe that can be brought in where you can bring in specialists for a time, you know in a way that you never could before well live. If this in the Friedmann, this has been a, this has been a fascinating conversation, and I think we could go on for a lot longer we’re scratching the surface, but want to do. I wanted to thank you for your time today.
I also wanted to thank you for for your work. As I said, we have adopted us here and it’s made. It’s made a big difference to us, so I would really encourage people who are reading or listening to go and check out. Professor Malik’s work. His management theories and his other books, because there I think you’re going to find that they’re quite transfer transformative. So again, I just wanted to thank you for your time today.
Thank you very much. John was a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for your wonderful questions and their stimulating conversation. My name is John golden says. Pop online sales magazine pipeliner CRM, CEO for another expert interview really soon. Thank you.
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